Who´s the lamest villain in a JRPG, in your opinion?

[blaydcor]

Khuutra said:

blaydcor said:

It's not that it doesn't appeal to me per se. I just found the game overall to be pulpy and not that well-written. If what you percieved about Squall and Rinoa was actually there, then the writers weren't  being subtle or clever, they were being cumbersomely oblique. They could have executed the concept much better. If not, than you just have a great imagination. More power to ya. There are much more poignant, effective, and understated ways to show pure love than to slap together a peicemeal, last-minute 'twist' like the one you go on about above.

Compare Ultimecia to, say, Jon Irenicus. Irenicus is not only one of the greatest villains in gaming, but I would go so far as to say one of the greatest characters. He is intricately and gradually developed, his motivations slowly elaborated on. Unravelling his identity is one of the driving mysteries of the game. He goes from an anonymous guy who kidnapped to you to a conflicted, tortured, but nevertheless inarguably evil villain over the course of the game. Ultimecia seems like she was thought up by an 8 year old who spends all his time reading comic books compared to this.

Final Fantasy VIII just felt too self-inflated and contrived for me to be really wowed by it. Like it's "oh, wow!" moments weren't the result of an artistic vision, but a massive budget and severe pressure to make a mind-bending, amazing game.

I'm a literature student. I have a very high tolerance for being willing to dig for meaning where there may be none.

I don't know who Jon Irenicus is or where he's from.

Your last paragraph doesn' really mesh here - you're bsically saying that its "oh wow" moments were technology driven, but that they were also driven by pressure to make a mind-bending, amazing game, which implies that the latter actually happened.

 

 

Jon Irenicus is from Baldur's Gate II. If you got that much out of Ultimecia, I suggest you play the game, as it is the closest I personally believe a game has come to rivalling literature in terms of pure storytelling power and heft.

I am also a literature student. I also have a very high tolerance for being willing to dig for meaning where there may be none. That is why I feel confident in saying that the nuances in FF VIII that you allege to are percieved rather than actual. It's the inevitable trap for people like us who spend way too much time scrutinizing every minor detail of everything: we start to see things where they aren't there.

I'll try restate my last paragraph a little more clearly. When I'm reading a good book, there will inevitably be moments where I think "Shit, that was brilliant. This author is a hell of a writer. They clearly have a vision." In the same manner there will inevitably be moments in a shitty book where I think "Wow, for a poor writer with a cliche plot, that was a surprisingly inspired passage/plot development/etc".

Final Fantasy VIII is more like the latter. Lots of ho-hum moments padded by densely packed layers of confusing, unneccesary details with the occasional awesome moment. It's like they told everyone on the team to come up with 10 crazy ideas then put every single one into the game. A few were brilliant, but most were not and should have been winnowed from the final product.

I've given a lot of thought to FF VIII (I do to any game with a reasonable level of complexity), and I believe it's biggest flaw is that it was simply too forced. They were trying to do everything VII had done, but do it better. Instead of creating an original game that was driven by artistic zeal, the whole things feels like a poorly executed mess of ideas jumbled together. Too much science and too little art went into its making.

That is what I mean when I say its few good moments were driven by pressure to make a great game. Even all the good parts feel contrived, not inspired.