VGC Poll: Abortion

[Final-Fan]

mrstickball said:

Final-Fan said:

mrstickball said:

Final-Fan said:
I have to side against you on this akuma587 in that the abortion question depends on at what point the fetus can be considered a person.

mrstickball, I find it ridiculous that you attempt to discredit an opposing argument by pointing out that some of the people giving it are activists, and then give a source like that one to justify your own position. And that's leaving aside the fact that it was ad hominem in the first place.

Final, then what are you supposed to do when those performing the 'research' obviously have a bias, as they involve themselves by performing abortions? I find it a hard argument to swallow to be true (that babies do not feel pain until ~25 weeks like the article states) when those putting forth the research perform abortions themselves. Especially given the fact that a large community of researchers put that date much earlier.

A large community of anti-abortion activists, you mean, which was my point.  You said, "that info is from people who are biased, look at this info from biased people instead!"

Here's the argument though: His sources (which are run by activists and abortionists) say babies feel pain at 30 weeks. My sources say 8 weeks. Lets discredit both arguments and go with the nominal, which puts it at 20 weeks. That's still against his argument that abortions didn't take place after 23 weeks. Not only that, it assumes that no further research would validate that it's earlier - which could always be the case.

I forget where this "nominal" is coming from -- please remind me. 

Also, Wikipedia sez:  "There is an emerging consensus among developmental neurobiologists that the establishment of thalamocortical connections (at about 26 weeks) is a critical event with regard to fetal perception of pain."  Their source.  (Pages 215-216.)  Unless this source is also written by people closely allied with abortion activists?  Serious question, I threw their names into google but didn't find much. 

So 26 weeks seems like a reasonable floor for the possibility of real pain sensation; and it's later than 23 weeks.  The abortion activists do seem to have fudged their figure by equating detectable with extant, but that's it. 

This assumes, of course, that later research doesn't show that perception is not truly established until a later stage.