Microsoft says it will take PS3 sales away at Christmas

[Sqrl]

Just_Ben said:

Sqrl said:

I never said the core was a good deal, but we are talking about uninformed consumers and when they know they need to get a 360 for Billy and one is much cheaper..well I think we know which one they will buy.

Sorry, the current price difference between core and premium in the US is 70$? And you need a memory card? thats not that big of a price difference. AND you seem not to know kids. They tell their parents exactly what they want. Especialy in that age (14+). Don't think the box will be bought for many kids under that age, if you consider the games for it. And if so, parents will ask the clerk and he will tell them to buy the premium. 

A price difference of $70 is a big deal, and during the holiday rush of buying presents plenty of parents will not even bother to ask a clerk. Kids do tell their parents precisely what they want in most cases, this I completely agree with.  But I think it is you who is out of touch with this dynamic as parents don't always get exactly what is requested.  When you are in a rush, trying to manage your holiday cash, and already view the console as just a toy and a waste of money the insistance and emphasis your child placed on how important it is can quickly be forgotten.

With that said, if you read my post carefully I never said the premium wasn't going to sell...this is why I felt I had to mention it several times and yet you still act as if I was implying that it wouldn't sell well.  I never said it wouldn't. The premium will sell just fine!

 

Just_Ben said:

Sqrl said:

As for trying to translate my X-mas argument to right now, are you insane? How does my argument of people not wanting to spend all of their X-mas budget on one item translate to summer? There is a big difference between people spending this kind of cash on themselves and grandma/grandpa/mom/dad spending it at X-mas. Parents don't really buy there 23+ year old children consoles anymore so its parents buying for teens mostly.

 And you think there will be no one, who will buy themselves a Christmas gift? Your argument is only true for the basic parent. But there are people who uses their Christmas bonus to buy themselves something they want! 

It's true people buy themselves stuff with X-mas bonuses, but the number of parents buying consoles for kids far outweighs the personal purchases.  Very few people buy themselves things for X-mas, and even less spend $500 when they need to purchase gifts for family members still.

I have to be honest in saying this argument seems to be grasping at straws.  Are you trying to tell me that from a WW sales perspective there is going to be a meaningful number of people who are going to buy themselves a PS3 for X-mas?  There will be people who do this, I don't doubt that.  But this is just background noise compared to the PS3s that will be purchased for others.  People need to realize that we don't need to account for every niche consumer in all of the millions of scenarios people could find themselves in.  They just don't add up to anything meaningful and this niche is no different. 

Basically when I see this argument I see you saying "Well I see your widespread broadly sweeping and universal consumer and I counter it with my insignificant niche consumer.".  I'm honestly not trying to be insulting but that is what I got out of your argument. 

 

Just_Ben said:

Sqrl said:

As for the 360 last X-mas, I'm not sure why you got the idea that it was $400 last X-mas since the core was $299. I would consider $300 to be the upper limit of what most parents will spend at X-mas.

 

And how good sold the core? As far as i understood poorly if you compare it with the premium.

Early adopters are always far more likely to buy the better equiped versions, so I am not really sure how the premium doing well up to this point means a whole lot in reference to the uninformed X-mas consumer.  I don't doubt that overall the premium is and will do better, but the core will very likely see strong sales on its price alone this holiday.  $70 is a big deal at X-mas, you can buy gifts for 3 people on $70.

 

 

Just_Ben said:

Sqrl said:

Ok lets keep this all in perspective now: I am not saying that neither console will sell this holiday, I am simply saying the price for the PS3 is still to high to see large numbers. The 360 on the other hand could see large numbers, but only on the back of the cheapest SKU available. So once again, yes they will sell, and they will see normal holiday boosts. But no they will not see spectacular blowout sales.

 

My argument is that, the PS3 hadn't had a Christmas in Europe, yet. And that people use their chrisms bonus for themselves. It is the only time of the year most people can afford to buy such a high price article. And the PS3 has at least some games by the time, and the brand name of the PS3 is much stronger than that of the 360. I know, a lot of people say, amazon don't count. But looking at amazon.de the price drop of the 360 seems to didn't help that much in Germany. Price is only one of a lot of things. 

For the part I bolded, see my first responce to that argument. I won't go into again, as I think I addressed it pretty well above.

For the rest of this quote:  First of all I am not sure how the PS3 not having had a X-mas in the "EU/Others" regions yet really effects or fits into this discussion of consoles losing sales to other consoles.  It would fit into a sales performance discussion just fine, but it makes no difference here.  Secondly, when it comes to the PS3 having a better brand image I would agree for the EU.  But this discussion isn't just about the EU, despite your attempts to make it seem that way.  

Now I have to ask you, how do you measure the brand if not by sales?  Looking at the sales if the PS3 truly has such a strong brand then why is it struggling in sales?  If it is a strong brand and there is so much faith in it then why aren't there games and why is it in a software drought?  You can't have it both ways.  The fact is that right now brand loyalty is out the window for Sony.  All but the most hardcore fanboys see the problems and are hedging their bets.  If the Brand was strong then gamers would be buying the console regardless of price and developers would be making tons of games for it regardless of install base.  The brand is NOT strong on a WW basis.  People need to accept this, you can't use the same crutch forever folks.

 

Just_Ben said:
 

Sqrl said:

Edit: Let me just add that not only do I think price still matters at X-mas, I think it actually matters more but in a different way. During X-mas the price matters not for a decision of "Do I buy?" but for the decision of "Which do I buy?". This goes hand in hand with what MS is saying here actually as you will see potential PS3 buyers scoff at the price and get a 360/Wii and potential 360 buyers could very well do the same picking up a Wii...but I think it will be a much much more significant PS3 -> 360/Wii trend than 360 -> Wii trend. Once again, for the rabid fanboys I feel I have to point out that I am not saying this is going to happen in all or even most cases, but it WILL happen and it will happen enough to make a differnce in WW sales this Holiday.

 

 So know I'm not called a Nintendo fanboy, I'm called a Sony fanboy? Nice! I'm still saying the PS3 will win in Europe against the 360 this holiday season, if there is a price drop before than by 2:1 (Nov+Dec).

I actually didn't call you a fanboy but you did paint yourself as one. Allow me to explain...  I was making the bolded comment to prevent people from jumping on the statement. By stating this I was trying to preempt an argument that was pointless.  The comment applied to anyone who was thinking of responding with the argument it was refuting.  You responded with the argument, not much I can do about that. And actually if you look at the part in red, "for the rabid fanboys", I was clearly addressing it away from you.

But I will apologise if I insulted you, it was not my intention. I am here for a debate not for a flamefest. The comment was intended only to bring clarity to what I was saying.

 

 

Just_Ben said:

 

I will take know a wild guess. You are coming from America? The way i see it, the discussion between those who are behind the 360 and those who are behind the PS3 is also mainly a discussion between Americans and Europeans here on the board. So lets just take a step back and think about that. This pattern should tell everybody something. The brand name PS is still strong in Europe. So strong that many think the PS3 can pull it. So why not say, the 360 will win in US and the PS3 in Europe?

I will take a wild guess.  You are coming from the EU?    But to answer your question yes I live in the US. The only problem I have with your logic here is that it neglects the existance of the Wii.  You cannot discount it just because it doesn't fit into the dicussion neatly.  The Wii scrambles things up quite a bit and I think its low price and huge sales in all markets sort of proves that it has the biggest consumer confidense right now.

Just_Ben said:

And please, don't call me a fanboy, I'm laying down an argument.

And by the way, quoting sucks in this forum!

 

 

See above for the fanboy thing.  And I completely agree about the quoting!