OK you PC guys, I just don't get why mouse/keyboard FPS is such a big deal.

[vlad321]

Grey Acumen said:

vlad321 said:

1) You keep coming back to the idea that it's not needed. So WHAT? You keep beating this dead horse of "MOUSEMOUSEMOUSEMOUSEMOUSEMOUSE" But I have never and continue to not argue against mouse. I have always ONLY been arguing against keyboard. If you want to continue this argument against me, then I recommend you think of using Mouse+keyboard vs Mouse+Analog. Just because you don't feel it's NEEDED doesn't make keyboard BETTER for not having it.
If one control allows me to do both at once, and the other control DOESN'T then the control that gives you the option is better. There isn't any point where it becomes an issue? Dude, that's just the game design, and it's probably BECAUSE the control option you're currently using sucks at it. I mean, seriously, do you think developers are going to TRY to make a situation where you realize just how frustratingly limited your controls are? What if, for instance, you need to run across a narrow ledge WHILE being shot at from multiple different sources off to the side from the ledge?

2) Dude, I do 99.999% of my aiming with wrist only, so there's no reason I can't rest my elbow on my knee. Then again, being a console player probably gives me the advantage over you in this feild, since I'm used to holding a controler in front of me for extended periods, while you're used to resting your arm on a table while you mouse. I might be wrong, but that's the best I can get at it. If you can't handle it, it's because you haven't practiced enough with it. Oh, do you see how that whole thing with "you just haven't practiced enough" can go both ways?

3) You keep taking things so far out of context. You know how FPS enthusiasts complain about 30 fps vs 60 fps? Some even complain about anything under 120 fps? the shutter of moving from forward to left or right is still there, and while I COULD correct for that, why should I? Analog means I don't need to because it's better.

1&4) You shot yourself in the foot on this one. I specifically said "WHILE shooting at one of the enemies" your example said "aim between them and strafe both" you said nothing about shooting at either of them. So that basically tells me that not having that "unnecessary" analog stick, means you have to choose between strafing perfectly and shooting perfectly, whereas a properly set up analog and mouse can do both.

4) It's a variable speed, yes, but it's not like the acceleration just wobbles all over the place. Your acceleration increases steadily as you move farther away from the center, it's really not that hard to match up the turning rate by accelerating the roll of your thumb. Admittedly, I'd need more practice before I could do it consistently myself on a 2 pixel ledge, but it's doable. Of course, since you only use 45 degree increments and think forward and strafe are the only REAL movements you need, it's not surprising that you wouldn't feel it's possible. Perhaps some practice might help with that.
I don't know if you've noticed, but your mouse does the same thing. If there wasn't any acceleration, then moving your mouse half an inch would always result in your mouse pointer moving on the screen the same amount each time, but if you move half an inch slowly, you'll generally wind up with your pointer moving only a few pixels, while moving the mouse quickly over that same half an inch will result in your pointer moving across the entire screen. Maybe you turn that off for FPS or something, but it's really not that hard to calculate the compensations for and it saves your arm a lot of strain.

 

5) Feels the same? What does that have to do with anything. And seriously, what point is there that you actually NEED to change your weapon in 10ms instead of 20ms? Is this one of those things where some enemies can only be hit by the blue gun and other guys only by the red gun? cause that's the only reason I see any need to change that rapidly. Otherwise your weapons should be adjusted based on situation. The situation is not going to change drastically enough for a weapon change in 10ms and not 20ms, I don't care what you're doing.
Not only that, but you're acting like pressing a single hotkey on the keyboard is the exact same as a single button on a controller, except they aren't. The controller has the buttons closer to your thumb/fingers, hence you don't need to move them as far, hence, given the same amount of practice on both, you can reach the buttons on the controller faster.

IllegalPaladin said:

I would have to disagree, the Half-Life games (and nearly all other PC FPS games I've played) have done just fine on PC despite it's jumping. 

Hey, that's what PC gamers have grown up knowing, and the only other choice they've ever been shown is that if they want a left analog, they've got to trade in their mouse for a right analog with it. What choice do they have besides work with what they've got?

 

I made a nice little summation post right under the previous one if you cared to look at the broad picture but alright.

1) I did not mention the Mouse anywhere here. I think you are starting to imagine things. And you wan't a controller that allows you to walk at different speeds also? I really want to know what FPS you are having in mind for this elaborate range of speeds that you keep talking about.

2) It's called mouse acceleration and any game turns has an option for it and it's off by default. It hampers accuracy by being very unpredictable in hectic situations. I grew up on the goold old Nintendo consoles so it's not liek I haven't been playing console games at all, I've been holding a controller longer than I've had a KBD under my fingertips. With such amazing steady, untiring hands you should think of becoming a surgeon. The reason why I'm calling you out is because even our resident pro Halo player on campus can't pull off a straight line while looking around nonstop, if he can't I find it hard to believe you can.

3)Are you saying that with an analog you won't lose your target without aim correction when you strafe?

1/4) You do realize that 2nd guy is moving as well and won't just be hitting you from the smae angle right? Without being able to see both of them at the same time you will have a hard time dodging any attacks from the 2nd guy unless you know the terrain well enough. You would be strafing at 100% efficiency, but that will last for about a total of half a second before the 2nd guy moves and you are  strafing as inefficiently as before.

5)Onyxmeth brought up the issue of hotkeys feeling the same on the KBD thus causing him to mess up the hotkeys. Also the speed at which you change weapons is VERY important, honestly, did you look at the Half-Life video in this thread at ALL? You gotta switch to a splash weapon when you know the person is right around the corner, a little delay and you won't hit him. In those 10 ms he could easily have gotten out of the AOE damage of the grenade/rocket/whatever. Big impact. Also same goes for hitscan weapons. Sometimes you have that very brief window of opportunity and if you delay in switching to you weaponn you lose it.

You are also right, pressing a keyboard button is far far superior than pressing controller buttons. With the WASD I have a total of 7 keys (excluding WASD) which are right under my fingertips and I can press them the very moment my brain gives the command to do so. Even without practice you reach KBD buttons quicker than you would on a controller. Considering you are holding the controller somehow you use most of your fingers for that, and the only buttons you can quickly press are the ones right under your fingers, for the other ones you have to do a very slow shuffling and finger moving to reach (assuming other keys do exist, where are you gonna stick mor keys on a nunchuck). I really hope you don't mean the same thumb with which you are controlling your character because that would mean loss of control for the time it takes you to shift your thumb off the stick, to the button, and back. This is the biggest advantage of the KBD over an analog and it's what sets it above it considering the fact that all else is equal. Better, faster control over your game.