OK you PC guys, I just don't get why mouse/keyboard FPS is such a big deal.

[Grey Acumen]

vlad321 said:

1) Half-Life is EXACTLY that type of game (Maybe you didn't multiplayer,  but even so maybe you missed the monsters trying to rip you apart?) , Portal's movement was extremely inconsequential to the actual game, you didn't need to be moving while looking around at all, you only moved so you could move from one point to another and there was no requirement for any precision at all, everythign else was handled by the aiming. Metroid Prime is an Adventure game with a few shooting elements and not a FPS by any stretch of the imagination. The only plus I see of the analog stick over the WASD is in tactical shooter where you need to move slowly to not be heard, but that's easily fixed with a nice walk or crouch button. As for the platformer elements in Half-Life, just let go of the button at the edge, it's really not that hard, you don't need to crawl to the edge.

 

2) It's not so much the centering but the fact that the way to get it dead center and stay there endlessly I'd need to rest my arm against something, limiting my aim sginificantly in case something jumped at me while I wass staring at the sky.

 

3) Now you are bringing up aiming, and I hate to break it to you but there is no reason why you should be losing your target when you strafe. In this the mouse excels. Also how is it a graceful arc when you go through the whole thing in a matter of miliseconds? It's still the sharp left or right as if I had pressed A or D.

 

1&4) Yet again you bring up aiming so I guess I will too. I don't know what you are looking at when you to see where you are going, unless the area has hazards in which case 2 quick wrist flicks scans the area and puts you back on the monster and then you can navigate just as easily with the WASD while actually shotting the target at the same time. Also if you have 2 enemies, you point the mouse in between them and you press the keys, voila, you are now dodging both enemies' fire at the same time.

4)You've done this in MP3's Advanced mode ? Because given the fact that the turn speed changes variably depending on every single pixel you are from the center somehow I doubt you'd manage to mimick the view's acceleration with the analog well enough for you not to fall off that 2 pixel wide beam. I call busllshit on the fact that you can walk a straight line with the analog while looking around in Advanced Mode, meaning your turn speed is extremely variable.

 

5) As for the hotkeys, how many can you put on a controller before they all start feeling the same? Also having to do a combination takes twice or three times as long as just pressing a hotkey.

1) You keep coming back to the idea that it's not needed. So WHAT? You keep beating this dead horse of "MOUSEMOUSEMOUSEMOUSEMOUSEMOUSE" But I have never and continue to not argue against mouse. I have always ONLY been arguing against keyboard. If you want to continue this argument against me, then I recommend you think of using Mouse+keyboard vs Mouse+Analog. Just because you don't feel it's NEEDED doesn't make keyboard BETTER for not having it.
If one control allows me to do both at once, and the other control DOESN'T then the control that gives you the option is better. There isn't any point where it becomes an issue? Dude, that's just the game design, and it's probably BECAUSE the control option you're currently using sucks at it. I mean, seriously, do you think developers are going to TRY to make a situation where you realize just how frustratingly limited your controls are? What if, for instance, you need to run across a narrow ledge WHILE being shot at from multiple different sources off to the side from the ledge?

2) Dude, I do 99.999% of my aiming with wrist only, so there's no reason I can't rest my elbow on my knee. Then again, being a console player probably gives me the advantage over you in this feild, since I'm used to holding a controler in front of me for extended periods, while you're used to resting your arm on a table while you mouse. I might be wrong, but that's the best I can get at it. If you can't handle it, it's because you haven't practiced enough with it. Oh, do you see how that whole thing with "you just haven't practiced enough" can go both ways?

3) You keep taking things so far out of context. You know how FPS enthusiasts complain about 30 fps vs 60 fps? Some even complain about anything under 120 fps? the shutter of moving from forward to left or right is still there, and while I COULD correct for that, why should I? Analog means I don't need to because it's better.

1&4) You shot yourself in the foot on this one. I specifically said "WHILE shooting at one of the enemies" your example said "aim between them and strafe both" you said nothing about shooting at either of them. So that basically tells me that not having that "unnecessary" analog stick, means you have to choose between strafing perfectly and shooting perfectly, whereas a properly set up analog and mouse can do both.

4) It's a variable speed, yes, but it's not like the acceleration just wobbles all over the place. Your acceleration increases steadily as you move farther away from the center, it's really not that hard to match up the turning rate by accelerating the roll of your thumb. Admittedly, I'd need more practice before I could do it consistently myself on a 2 pixel ledge, but it's doable. Of course, since you only use 45 degree increments and think forward and strafe are the only REAL movements you need, it's not surprising that you wouldn't feel it's possible. Perhaps some practice might help with that.
I don't know if you've noticed, but your mouse does the same thing. If there wasn't any acceleration, then moving your mouse half an inch would always result in your mouse pointer moving on the screen the same amount each time, but if you move half an inch slowly, you'll generally wind up with your pointer moving only a few pixels, while moving the mouse quickly over that same half an inch will result in your pointer moving across the entire screen. Maybe you turn that off for FPS or something, but it's really not that hard to calculate the compensations for and it saves your arm a lot of strain.

 

5) Feels the same? What does that have to do with anything. And seriously, what point is there that you actually NEED to change your weapon in 10ms instead of 20ms? Is this one of those things where some enemies can only be hit by the blue gun and other guys only by the red gun? cause that's the only reason I see any need to change that rapidly. Otherwise your weapons should be adjusted based on situation. The situation is not going to change drastically enough for a weapon change in 10ms and not 20ms, I don't care what you're doing.
Not only that, but you're acting like pressing a single hotkey on the keyboard is the exact same as a single button on a controller, except they aren't. The controller has the buttons closer to your thumb/fingers, hence you don't need to move them as far, hence, given the same amount of practice on both, you can reach the buttons on the controller faster.

IllegalPaladin said:

I would have to disagree, the Half-Life games (and nearly all other PC FPS games I've played) have done just fine on PC despite it's jumping. 

Hey, that's what PC gamers have grown up knowing, and the only other choice they've ever been shown is that if they want a left analog, they've got to trade in their mouse for a right analog with it. What choice do they have besides work with what they've got?