Debate: So apparently McCain doesn't know Jack ...

[Final-Fan]

Kasz216 said:

Final-Fan said:

Kasz216 said:

Final-Fan said:
But how much would McCain actually cut costs? How much would Obama actually raise them? If you have no idea, please don't make numbers up. (And no, I don't really know either.)

How much would Obama raise them?  1 Trillion in healthcare costs over those 10 years alone.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/04/opinion/04krugman.html

That gets you back to even if McCain doesn't cut spending at all... or close to it anyway.

Of course McCain has a healthcare plan too but Obama's plans generally outspend Mccain's in most areas.

Actually, Obama is still $200 billion ahead plus whatever McCain spends on health care. 

It's a good start, though.  We're making progress.  On the other hand, it's hard to say how much of this will materialize -- aside from the well-known fickeness of campaign promises (on all sides), there's the fact that the economic meltdown and bailout is going to push some stuff on the back burner no matter how sincerely it was originally promised (February in the case of the health care thing).  A few days ago , if not before, Obama said as much. 

I appreciate your effort but I think we need to decide whether the spending comparisons can actually be done in detail.  I'm sorry if I have asked the impossible.  I should have considered this first. 

(P.S.  On a totally unrelated note, did you look at who was getting the bulk of the tax cuts?)

(1) Until either campaign revises there plans we have to take them at their word at what their budgets would be.

(2) Even if you were going to cut so much for "overpromising" it seems like nothing more then bias to just assume Obama is "overpromising" more then McCain.

(3) I think it's very possible to track down about what each of their stated government budgets are going to be but it would take more research then i'm willing to put in right now.  I'd have to look harder at for example their energy plans, for example.

(4) As for the tax cuts... yeah... and it generally fits with my own thinking on taxes.

When times are bad and unemployment is high... cut the tax of buisnesses and the rich as they can use that money to create more jobs that people need do to the high unemployment.  Not always great jobs... but there jobs.  Keep the companies up so more jobs are lost.

When times are good... tax the crap out of said companys since they can afford it.

Raise taxes on companies when the economy is bad and they either have to cut jobs or go out of buisness putting everyone out of work.

Lower taxes on companies when the economy is doing good and they get new profit expectations that are higher and feel a need to hoard more money... and also have to get greedier to meet those goals leading to them taking riskier moves and getting unbalanced.

(1)  Of course.  I'm just concerned that we'd be putting lots of time and effort into something rendered moot anyway. 

(2)  I never suggested that McCain wouldn't be cutting stuff from his plan in response to the same situation that's causing Obama to warn he'll probably cut stuff from his. 

(3)  I agree, except that I don't think they will have concrete numbers for everything, not even necessarily ballpark  numbers.

(4)  I'm pretty sure those numbers were for personal/family tax rates.  I understand that some small businesses are filed under the individual's income, but I don't think the impact will be huge and anyway they can always switch to filing as businesses, being smart businesspeople. 

However, in addition to these tax plans, McCain also wants to lower the corporate tax rate from 35% to 25%, which would certainly affect businesses.  Make no mistake, that is a monstrous tax cut and I for one think it's too big.  But then, I'm no close student of economics.  On the other hand, I'll take bets with anyone who says it'll be easy to raise taxes again when Wall Street is solid again. 

He also wants to give additional tax cuts like "first-year deduction" of all equipment and technology purchases, and a "Permanent Tax Credit Equal To 10 Percent Of Wages Spent On R&D". 

http://www.johnmccain.com/Informing/Issues/0b8e4db8-5b0c-459f-97ea-d7b542a78235.htm

P.S.  It also says "John McCain believes it should require a 3/5 majority vote in Congress to raise taxes", but even though I'm speaking from total ignorance at the moment, I'd be extremely surprised if this was anything more than an empty statement made for the sole purpose of making Grover Norquist cream his pants.  OK, too graphic, and I'm kind of joking, but does anyone know if that is an even remotely realistic idea?