So who is watching the debate tonight?

[Final-Fan]

Kasz216 said:

Final-Fan said:

Kasz216 said:

Final-Fan said:

Kasz216 said:
I'd give McCain a slight win. I don't think he made any real mistakes while Obama made a couple slipups.

He focused too much on the past of Iraq and never adressed why a fixed timetable wouldn't be a problem... and not backing off sending troops into a democratic country was something that were going to turn people off.

I really liked the Debate format too... one of the best i've seen.

I disagree. It's his OWN advisor that he's wrong about, and he started the fight!  (And fought so hard only to be 100% wrong.)

As for going after bin Laden in Pakistan whether Pakistan is on board or not, I think it depends partially on how frustrated people are with the number of times we "almost" got him.  I think it's clear that it's just an option he's keeping in his deck, not something he's going to rush out and do.

I think you missed the point.  Obama said he would talk without preconditions to anybody.

Including Ahmadinejad who McCain said he wouldn't talk to without preconditions.  The main difference was that McCain saw preconditions as previous diplomatic events with other diplomats, while Obama saw it as "They must do every single thing we say."

In reality they both agreed on it... and both had different ideas on what "Preconditions" means.  In the end Obama conceded that there would have to be starter talks before he talked to anybody.

If I recall correctly, even after Obama correctly defined his use of "preconditions", McCain continued to hammer that point.  I could be wrong, as I don't have time to review the transcript at the moment.  I will later, but feel free to beat me to it and prove me wrong.

The problem is... Obama's definition of preconditions was incorrect.

"I'm not going to meet with you until the secretary of state or some other guy meets with your leaders first."

is a precondition don't you think?

It's not sure if that was his original definition or if that was just Obama backtracking on his previous comment.

"On preconditions the two appear to agree. Last week Kissinger also said that 'I do not believe that we can make conditions for the opening of negotiations.'" source

As for the definition of preconditions, here's how the term is used by the U.S. deputy assistant secretary of state: 
U.S. wants Georgia, Abkhazia talks without preconditions
...
Both Georgia and the rebels have set preconditions for sitting down to talks with each other.
...
"We cannot understand why there are no direct negotiations between Sukhumi and Tbilisi. If the parties are serious about reducing tensions, they do not put preconditions," [U.S. Deputy Assistant Secretary of State Matthew] Bryza told reporters in Tbilisi.
...
Abkhaz separatists say talks would be impossible unless Georgia withdrew its troops from a disputed gorge cutting deep into Abkhaz territory.

They also demand Georgia sign a formal pledge not to attack the region. Georgia has refused to sign formal pledges not to attack, saying it did not have any such plans anyway.

So I think it's clear that "preconditions" means "do this and this and this, and then we'll talk to you", not "we'll talk to you right now but not at the Presidential level at first".