To all believers on this site...

[vlad321]

Tispower1 said:

ManusJustus said:

Witnesses claim to have seen miracles in other religions too. Do you suppose we accept every claimed miracle of every religion?

Jesus (not the first or last man to claim to be a god) and was not resurrected. The Christian movement was an offbeat cult until 400 years after Jesus' death, and no one even knew where the tomb was.

When miracles happen in religion, their followers remember where those events occured. Muslims have the Kabah at the exact spot they believe God created a miracle, thats not to mention countless other specific locations of miracles for all religions. The problem with Christianity is that no one knows where this happened (because it didn't) and nobody but a few followers believed it for centuries.

If Jesus was resurrected from the dead, his tomb would be the holyiest place on Earth, and you can be assured that somebody would bother to remember where it was. All we got were a bunch of zealous Christians making up locations centuries later, thats why there are numerous temples dedicated to the spot Jesus was put on the cross and no temples for his tomb.

I think you're not taking into consideration the whole Christian movement was being persecuted, tortured, killed, crucified, etc and driven underground by a little known authority called the Roman Empire (!), plus most Christians will agree that going on pilgrimages etc is a waste of time, I know Catholics do it, and it was popular in medieval times, but actual places etc have no meaning to Christians, what they mean however is completely different, but the actual place, the place his actual tomb was, why should I go there, what would I gain by going there?

And give some substantiation for your other religion 'miracles', and give numbers.

 

Maybe you haven't heard of how Islam came to be. Muhammad goes on a journey and sees an archangel, forget which one, but the archangel basically outlines Islam to Muhammad.  That's as legit as Jesus' resurrection and Moses acquiring the ten commandments. It's a Miracle I tell you.

Also you are basing your assumptions on this?

"The disicples stole the body and imagined or pretended they saw him alive afterwards. The number of identical and independant hallucinations needed to generate the early church's proclamation is totally unbelievable, and without any other parallels. Also many witnesses were killed and tortured for saying they had seen Jesus alive, which you would be highly unlikely to go through if you had made it up in the first place. Although people still die for apparently silly things, people may die for things they can't prove are true, but won't die for things they can prove are not true. In addition, the people who found the empty tomb were women, which to 1st century Jews would not have been acceptable witnesses."

You are basing your belief on hallucinations? Do you even know what the definition of a hallucination is?  Hate to break it to you, but I'm pretty sure hippies saw some even cooler stuff than Jesus back in the 60s. Hallucinogens didn't just magically appear several hundred years ago. They've always been here and they've always affected people's minds the same way.