Malstrom rants about the hardcore - completely misses the point.

[Final-Fan]

tarheel91 said:

Final-Fan says: 

tarheel91 said:

pearljammer said:

tarheel91 said: 

I'm talking about the actual definition of hardcore:

1. The most dedicated, unfailingly loyal faction of a group or organization: the hard core of the separatist movement.
2. An intractable core or nucleus of a society, especially one that is stubbornly resistant to improvement or change.

It's tempting to choose option one when referring to hardcore gamers, but we can't.  They typically are against this flood of people joining their hobby.  They use derogatory words to describe all new comers like "casual."  Someone who is unfailingly loyal to something would welcome its growth, not reject it.  So, we're left with option two.  Notice the whole "stubbornly resistant to improvement or change."  How doesn't this describe a lot of gamers today?  They resist the change that is casual gaming.  They fail to comprehend how anyone could want something beyond what has been the norm for the past decade in gaming.

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@ "typically" - (Really? We shouldn't generalize a vocal minority as sharing the same thoughts as others who identify themselves with the same term. With that said, we could sure use option 1, which of course I wouldn't accept either, as it doesn't completely fit my, and many others' definition)

@ "casual" - Again, please do not generalize. I use the word casual as well, but I use it with a completely diferent meaning - I don't think of my parents with any ill will when I say they are casual gamers. It's simply a word that sometimes is carried with a negative connotation by a vocal few.

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The person I originally quoted was mad because he thought he was hardcore and the way Malstrom described hardcore was very different from him.  However, the issue was not that Malstrom was wrong, but that the poster put himself in the wrong group.  Malstrom is following the accepted meaning of the word "hardcore."  When he uses it, he assumes everyone will apply the accepted definition, not whatever crap they want it to mean.  People are assigning words to groups instead of the other way around.  You don't say hardcore means this because Jake is hardcore and Jake is this.  You say Jake is hardcore because hardcore means this and Jake is this.

That's why I find all this "hardcore means _____ to me" crap retarded.  It already has a set definition.  What you're doing is just defining other words and substituting hardcore for them.

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@Final-Fan: I did address it, just not directly.  I think I made it more clear this time.  Basically, they aren't a vocal minority.  They are the great majority of hardcore gamers.  They're NOT the majority of the group pearljammer is talking about.  However, the group pearljammer is talking about doesn't fit with the definition of the word hardcore.  It fits better with the word enthusiast (I'm sure there are a few other good ones, but that's my solid example right now).

You didn't address the objection I was referring to, which was his objection that there is a large "silent majority" of people correctly identifying as hardcore because of definition #1, whereas it's a vocal minority describable by definition #2, and that Malstrom does a disservice to the larger group with his taunting. 

He may be wrong, but you need to give better evidence than "because you're wrong". 

"the group pearljammer is talking about doesn't fit with the definition of the word hardcore."  What?  It simply doesn't fit with definition #2, where you're trying to pigeonhole it.  Def. #1 works just fine.  Beyond that, I think I'll pick up where Picko left off:

(1) Even if we accept your assertion that loyalty is correlated to enthusiasm, that doesn't suddenly make them mean the same thing.  Happiness and peace of mind are usually directly related, but does that make them the same?  Hardly.  The fact of the matter is, happiness is possible without peace of mind and vice versa.  No matter how much you want it to be loyalty != enthusiasm.  The two words even talk about different things.  Loyalty is related to staying faithful or committed even under adversity.  Without some form of trial, it's hard to prove loyalty.  Enthusiasm, on the other hand, simply means that you devote a large amount of time and energy going after something.  There's no difficulty involved.  Ironic that you should mention high school comprehension, I just got my scores back from AP tests in May.  My AP English score was, ironically, a 5.

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(3)Finally, I have no need to use disception in my argument.  There certainly is a hardcore group of people devoted to gaming who fulfill that first definition.  They defend games when they come under fire from media, argue against their peers, teachers, or whoever about why video games are good.  No matter what happens, they stay committed to gaming because they are hardcore (first definition).

[edit2:  removed stupidity] 
(Definition for enthusiasm repost:)

enthusiast -

1. One who is filled with enthusiasm; one who is ardently absorbed in an interest or pursuit: a baseball enthusiast.
2. A zealot; a fanatic.

(1)  Granting that both pairs of words are not equivalent, there is certainly a good deal of overlap.  For instance, enthusiasts frequently devote much time and energy to their chosen hobby (or whatever the target of their enthusiasm is).  In many cases, large amounts of money are also tied up in these pursuits -- gaming is certainly one of these.  So it would be foolish to me to think that enthusiasts are not mostly if not universally describable as dedicated as well, at least in the senses of the words that we are all clearly talking about. 

As for "unfailingly loyal", I think this is where many splinter between "loyal to gaming" and "loyal to MS/Sony/Nintendo".  But even the second group is still within the first definition so long as it does not blinker them into opposing advances in gaming just because they fear it might be insufficiently beneficial to their chosen horses.  And it only makes sense that the ones who can't get past that fear would be the ones screaming the loudest on the forums, and that is who Malstrom is right to deride.  [edit:  And spending thousands of dollars and hours over years and years shows "loyalty" to gaming even if I didn't have to defend my Super Nintendo from attackers or whatever you were thinking of as "adversity".]

(3)  Again, I would expect huge overlap in this, to the point that nearly everyone in the "second definition" hardcore group would follow evey one of your examples of what supposedly identifies the "first definition" group.

P.S.  "deception"