Shaq was a great player but he's a fool now. He's scared that Dwight will be more popular than him.
I think kobe is a great player - at MJ level great.
Lakers should win and will have 5 more chances next 5 years.

I'd have a hard time saying one is really much "better" than the other, which is probably how I should have phrased it in the first place. Besides, VORP doesn't work that way. You can't use VORP and then use my argument of someone like McGrady being available because he's not a replacement level player. He's well above average. VORP is used to measure how well a player performs compared to a waiver-wire scrub put in his place. My statement was that Shaq is rarer than Kobe, which is why I'd want him as a first pick. It's the same idea as taking A-Rod (pre-Yankees) over Pujols because you can find a first baseman who will put up respectable numbers to offset Pujols while you won't find a SS who hits over .300 and hits 40 homers to replace A-Rod. Pujols may put up slightly better numbers but only in a vacuum. You can find a fourth round first basemen who will hit .280 and 20 homers without much difficulty.

My point is that when structuring a basketball team, I think it's better to take the dominant big man first and then try to scrape together a decent-to-good shooting guard instead of the other way around. I think a team will do better with Shaq and Billups than it would Kobe and "fill in decent center's name here".

Which, in an extremely roundabout way, is all I'm really saying.

Clean sweep for Lakers over the Magic.

It's hard to tell with Kobe. He's one of the first tests of how it impacts a player to enter the NBA at 18. He's got a lot of miles on those legs.

One thing that is vastly underrated about Bryant is his durability. If he keeps it up at this level for 3-4 more years and pulls down two more championships, we can start talking about Jordan. Right now, he's a half-step behind.

Remember that as great as Jordan was, the NBA was a very different animal than it is now. The kick-out jumper is illegal, tugging on jerseys (something Jordan was famous for doing to gain position), and several other moves are either dead, non-calls, or offensive fouls now.

Which is fine... but with this thinking we're saying both Shaq is more valuable... and more distinct from others in his position.

I can't see in a way in which you would say Kobe is better.  Even being a "fool" now most teams would kill to have him on their team.

@rocketpig

kobe is going to be interesting next year, two straight finals runs, over 1000 games played (like kg now). could be a drop off

as far as him bein a step behind mj, its like this, kobe wins 6 rings, it still took him 8 tries, unlike jordans 6 tries, 6 rings

Next 5 years is pushing it.

But then again Kobe is playing it smart.

He's put a lot of mileage on his legs but he's also changed up his game like Jordan has.

He drives a lot less and shoots a lot more fadeaways.  He's doing the right thing to extend his career but who knows if he's still got it.

As for Jordan level....

That's just an understatement at how talented Jordan was. 

I mean... even when he came back for a second time for the Wizards... he was amazing.  Long after his actual physical abilties were gone he was still able on nights to school top talent at the 3 purely with his skill.

Jordan was by far the most talented basketball player to play the game.  Kobe is a close emulation of MJ but he isn't close in talent.  Nobody was... outside of possibly Magic.

Magic had it all... size, unebelivable talent... two things really held him back from being considered the greatest.

1) He pretty much always had great teammates, unlike Jordan, where it was He, Pippen and then a bunch of Scrubs.  Or Kobe where he had Kobe, Shaq and a bunch of scrubs... or now...

Well actually Kobe has a lot of great players they're just really underrated.  Gasol is possibly the most underrated person in the league.  He'd be THE guy on almost any other team in the league... top 15 player maybe even top 10 in my book.  Odom has always been great... when he's on etc.

2) He was too nice a guy.  He didn't have that "screw my team... i'm taking this game over." instinct.  He was always teammates first and going to the open man... and to be considered the best you have to take crazy illadvised shots... the kind your coach would bench you for if you took them in a highschool game...

and you've got to make those shots.

Well if Rings were going to be the metric then Bill Russel is the greatest player of all time.

He has 11... in 12 tries.

Jerry West however is horrible... only 1 ring...

Just to show how good Jerry West is though.

He's the only guy to win "Finals MVP" and be on the losing team.

i love jerry west dont worry

i guess jordan i feel i have to defend, cus i grew up a gary payton fan, but jordan was something else, just the most unstoppable force ive seen in the nba in my life

Oh there are plenty of reasons MJ is better then Kobe.  Rings really aren't one of them though.

Being a Gary Payton fan is a good reason to be a Jordan defender though.

The Glove was one of the few people who could guard the guy straight up.

I wonder if it was just that Jordan didn't have any rivals... or if he was that good.

He was so good he retired early... well or was suspended secretly for betting on games.  Then retired again... basically because he just had nothing to prove.

Could Kobe or Lebron have pushed him.

I'm not sure Kobe could.  He's a little better physically but MJ's skills were unreal.  Lebron likely couldn't currently either but he's such a physical freak he'd have a shot.

As West put it... Lebron is like a football player playing basketball with full control of his body.