I still don't think straight people should be able to do what gay people can't, even if they're getting the exact same thing with a different name. That's the thing, if it's different, it's not equal.

It should all be labeled the same thing. Marriage, civil union, ceremony of partnership, bullshitarrage, whatever you want to call it, it's all the same, and it should be called the same thing for everyone, as that's the only thing that's equal.

Also, if you're going to argue against calling it the same thing...

How will changing the legal name of marriage degrade people's own religious or cultural dedication to each other?

It is silly. People should be together out of love, not out of some symbolic cultural ceremony.

I don't care if it's insulting, marriage is silly. If you disagree please tell me why.

I don't want to be part of the tradition, I want the tradition eradicated and for it all to be called the same thing. But since you people insist on calling it marriage, gays should get the same right.

Umm, female and male unions are something that is here to propagate the species. Marriage is something us humans invented so horny males didn't just fuck anything, something invented for some social order.

They are very different things, male-female relationships and marriage.

You are quite correct. I wasn't referring to marriage as the silly tradition, the silly tradition I was referring to was it being between a man and a woman. Even though I do think marriage is a silly tradition, I think it's more silly to say it should be between a man and a women "because it's always been that way!".

Logical fallacies are silly, and appealing to tradition is a logic fallacy.

Well since nobody's going to answer the question that WessleWoggle and myself have been asking for pages (how will gay marriages demean existing straight marriages or the sanctity of marriage or the institution as a whole?), I'm going to bed for now.



Gay marriage will be legalized nationwide and there's nothing anybody can do to stop it. The majority of old people hate the idea and the majority of young people support the idea. So as more old people die and more young people stop caring about discriminatory traditions (and fewer and fewer young people are religious in America anyway), it's only a matter of time until it gets legalized. The acceptance of the idea is accelerating as we speak. Massachussetts legalized it in 2004 and everybody thought they were crazy. Now we have 4 states only 5 years later. The Netherlands was the first country to legalize it in 2001, and now we have 7 countries only 8 years later. Things are looking good so far.

A recent CBS News poll found that 33 percent of Americans support same-sex marriage, up from 22 percent back in 2004. (source)

Younger people increasingly support it: Forty-one percent of those under 45, compared to just 18 percent of those over 65 years of age. (same source)

In only 5 years it's gone from 1 out of 5 to 1 out of 3 people supporting gay marriage. And this is one of the only issues young people care about enough to vote for. In a couple years, over half the people under 45 will support the idea. When people my age are 45, our kids are gonna laugh at the idea and it will definitely be legal nationwide then. So I give it 19 years.

And for the few here who don't believe me when I say gay marriages have occurred all over the world in different times, it's definitely not just 1 or 2 radicals here and there. Whole cultures have embraced the idea at different times, and had big state-recognized ceremonies to celebrate the formation of their unions, until bigots took over and started killing all the homosexuals.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_same-sex_unions

Ooh, and Wikipedia has a timeline of all laws regarding same sex unions everywhere.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_same-sex_marriage

As you can see, everything in 2009 so far has been good news for extending rights rather than taking them away. By the end of the year same-sex marriages will be legalized in Iowa, Sweden, and Vermont, and Hungary just legalized domestic partnerships. It's spreading. And speeding up.

Goodnight everybody.

I don't hate people. I don't hate anybody for any reason. I am a Christian, which means I rise above circumstance, above the problems of life itself. So to damkira who thinks he's so wise; I don't hate white people, and you clearly misunderstood my post.

RubangB - The facts only show how terrible things are. Anyone with a differing opinion then will be destroyed by other people. Like Miss California. I'm not here to argue homosexuality and how it hopes to degrade marriage. I'm just simply stating that because people take marriage for granted, and they don't understand it's meaning, those of us that do will suffer and be hated for it.

In the end every Christian knows that this world will end violently, because it will all fall under sin. Every Christian knows that every battle it will fight for what's good and pure and sacred will be lost, because Jesus Christ has already told us.

The reason why we do care, is because Christ teaches us to always stand up for righteousness. Like the many Christians before us, we'd die before we accept or tolerate sin. And if Christ is wholly true, this Nation (along with many others) would have us persecuted because of what we believe, because "the world hates truth that declares the world to be wicked".

But every Christian must carry their cross right? I know all you guys will hate me for what I believe, and what Miss California believes and everything. But what I care about is that you know WHY we believe what we believe.

Marriage is sacred. To us there is no straight marriage or gay marriage or anything like that. That doesn't even make any sense, because Marriage has little to do with sex. Marriage is about creating a family, a unity between a man and a woman that would be a foundation for a new family. It goes beyond love and simple family bonds. It comes from Adam and Eve, who together became the head of humanity itself.

Go ahead and love and fuck whoever you want. Whether we think it's wrong or right only frames your choices for you. But to change Marriage is completely different. It's more than just doing what you want, it's changing something that's supposed to have meaning, into something less. Like the mutilated meaning of Christmas, or the unclear meaning of Easter, or the mystified meaning of Communion and all that other stuff.

I care because this is just as much My America as it is yours. I'd rather have it righteous than tolerant.

If gay people want to get married and be miserable like everyone else, I don't see why they shouldn't be allowed lol.

Well she certainly did screw up with her answer. I know it's just her opinion, but still if she wanted to win she should have given a better response especially on such a widely debated topic like this.

Usually, I root for CA in things like this, etc.(being from CA myself), but in this case I'm kind of glad she lost as her views seem to be out of sync with those of a large portion of the state.

LOL Serapheart, no offense, but listen.. 

There are some christians like you here in Europe. But they don't talk like they're living inside of some Action/Fantasy Film.

Seraphreat, first of all, saying that every christian knows the world will end violently... Isn't that a little redundant? The world's going to end violently... As opposed to it ending peacefully? The only way the world could end is in violence or something similar.

Now, for the topic at hand, people who are against gay marriage deserve to have their opinion looked down upon, because they have no basis for their opinion other than than logical fallacies.

For example, you think marriage is sacred because Adam and Eve were the first ones to do it or something, you think marriage is sacred between a man and a women because it's always been that way, you think it should stay that way coz teh bible says so. The fallacies you are using: Appeal to tradition, appeal to widespread belief, appeal to authority(the authority being the bible)

"I care because this is just as much My America as it is yours. I'd rather have it righteous than tolerant."

I'd rather have it equal than righteous, as what is righteous and what is not, is highly subjective. Equality is a simple concept, we all deserve equal rights. Righteousness is a complicated concept, very different for each individual person.

The world doesn't hate the truth, it's hates negative truth.

For example, the truth that we don't have a complete understanding on how the universe, earth, or humanity formed, and we don't know what's after death, if there is even anything. So, people like to cling on to their religious beliefs to ease the pain of the truth, that us humans live in uncertainty when it comes to the big questions.

Marriage being sacred isn't the truth, it's a subjective opinion based on logical fallacies. In the modern world, in our country, marriage is a legal document to gain rights, and gays shouldn't be barred from it just because you call it sacre. Sacred is a meaningless word. We should all have civil unions or we should all have marriages.

Oh, and also, as for the mutilated meaning of Christmas and Easter... They have been mutilated ever since the church replaced the original pagan holidays they were based on.

WessleWoggle and the rest of you liberals. You who call yourself so moral and justful and say everyone should be equal, traditional values must be broken and stuff - what right do you have to eat animals?

Exactly. You're just like a racist. And hypocrite too.