MikeB said: @ naznatips And what benefit have we seen from this? How many months has the PS3 been available? Do you realize some games take many years to complete? Final Fantasy XIII isn't a launch game just because they like to tease people! Seriously it's foolish to judge the usefulness of Blu-Ray's storage based on currently available software. That would be like saying the PS2 wouldn't have benefitted from DVD's storage based on its launch game library (and believe me there were many people who criticized Sony for this at the time!) God of War 2 wasn't a launch PS2 game neither, if it would have been I would actually have bought a PS2.

I'm pretty sure considering in the first year the PS2 released GT3, GTA3, and FFX, no one was complaining.  However, in the first year of the PS3 we haven't seen a single game that shows Blu-Ray can do anything that DVD can not.  Both the Wii and Xbox 360 have signifficantly longer games.  I really don't know what you are expecting out of Blu-ray.  You think any developers are ever going to make a 120 hour game?  So far we can't even get them to make a 10 hour game.  

Great article Shams. I forget where I read it but I recall reading an article about how Sony's decision to make the PS3 a jack of all trades was made because the PS2 only helped a couple parts of the company directly. To better help the company as a whole Sony decided that the PS3 would include parts from every division creating the overpriced overengineered hybrid monster we see struggling today.

Anyone who thinks this was all part of Sony's plan and they are happy with where the PS3 is is simply delusional. I don't remember the exact numbers but Sony initially expected to ship somewhere between 10 and 15 million PS3's in it's first year. They essentially expected it to be selling like the Wii is, or more accurately like the PS2 did. 5 million sold at $600 with no games, people working second jobs to buy it, and so forth. Having 16% of the market and about 20% of monthly sales, getting blown out of the water by the gimmick, barely making up any ground on the also overpriced but underengineered Xbox coffin stuffer is not how it was supposed to be (according to Sony).

Arguing that the PS3 is doing great for its price and games sounds like the Sony fanboy version of what Nintendo fanboys said for 10 years. "the N64 is doing great with no 3rd party support, only a few 1st party games, and overpriced cartridges" or "the Gamecube is doing really well for being a purple lunchbox with few 3rd party games, only a few 1st party games, and no DVD". Sony fanboys laughed at Nintendo fanboys especially hard during the GCN era when they made that claim so fully expect to be laughed at by Nintendo fanboys now. Not by me of course, I'll just point out how idiotic you guys sound.

I'm at work, and probably shouldn't be responding, but 2 things stuck out:

Companies are working on PS2 games till 2008? Only because they want the Mass Market.

Dallas: Spreadsheets. Learn them, love them, give Dan Brickland a hand job. Computers were nothing more than a Hobby till that was programmed. Multifunctionality, hell, true multifunctionality since you could make anything (limited) on it didn't sell it. A single piece of software did.

@ Solidar

Some notes:

- A PC for a few 100 bucks won't come with a Blu-Ray player
- You can install Linux like me on a PS3 and use it for office tasks, chatting, webbrowsing, so the most popular PC tasks.
- PS3 consumers don't buy the device for general computing tasks, the PS3 has an impressive games line-up and a great PS2+PS3 games library, all features are ofterred pretty seamlessly through an easy to understand user interface compared to a PC operating system. Want to play a game? Insert the disc and play away, want to watch a Blu-Ray movie, insert disc and watch. Want to browse the web? Even a webbrowser is integrated, allowing you to easily browse the web on your TV, etc.
- Problems like with PCs (spyware, trojans, virusses, etc), driver issues, hardware specs which don't match the game you're interested in well enough, etc are pretty much non-existant.
- Games will be optimised for the PS3, allowing developers to get the most out of the system in course of time. On the PC you will always have to watch out of better hardware to run your game with the specs it was designed for and usually the true optimal performance cannot be achieved as there are so many different available specs.

Maybe now you better understand why the PC gaming market has degraded so much the last couple of years. Even XBox consoles offers a bigger games market than the PC games market is today.

Solidar said: And ANY person that wants a real job HAS to have multiple degrees pal. You wouldn't understand that since you have probably never been to college.

QFT! -  I won't get in the middle of your argument but I will say this is absolutely true.  I have talked with a few of the big defense contractors like Lockheed Martin, Boeing, and Northrop Grummon. And the one common point is that multiple degrees are required for consideration.  I am currently back in school trying to finish up another 2 degrees.  This time for 2 Bachelors in Computer Science and the other one will probably end up being Robotic Engineering. Although I have given serious thought to looking at some of the Aerospace engineering programs but those jobs can be rediculously competitive so I am thinking a little less competetive field is a good start and work on the Aerospace degree on the side until I can finish it up and apply with a few years experience under my belt.  Plus the diverse background goes a long way.

Just a single degree (especially an associates degree) is not enough to get a solid high paying job, at least not in the tech sector.

@ Sqrl

And I don't see a problem with that. If the PS3 would have an installed base of well over 100 million right now, it would put Sony in serious financial problems. Currently they are profitable, adding value to the PS3 step by step, with the install base gradually increasing.

MikeB said: @ Solidar Except computers have 1000x the functions of a PS3 and the price of a computer can range from a few hundred to several thousand dollars Some notes: - A PC for a few 100 bucks won't come with a Blu-Ray player - You can install like like me on a PS3 and use it for office tasks, chatting, webbrowsing, so the most popular PC tasks. - PS3 consumers don't buy the device for general computing tasks, the PS3 has an impressive games line-up and a great PS2+PS3 games library, all features are ofterred pretty seamlessly through an easy to understand user interface compared to a PC operating system. Want to play a game? Insert the disc and play away, want to watch a Blu-Ray movie, insert disc and watch. Want to browse the web? Even a webbrowser is integrated, allowing you to easily browse the web on your TV, etc. - Problems like with PCs (spyware, trojans, virusses, etc), driver issues, hardware specs which don't match the game you're interested in well enough, etc are pretty much non-existant. - Games will be optimised for the PS3, allowing developers to get the most out of the system in course of time. On the PC you will always have to watch out of better hardware to run your game with the specs it was designed for and usually the true optimal performance cannot be achieved as there are so many different available specs. Maybe now you better understand why the PC gaming market has degraded so much the last couple of years. Even XBox consoles offers a bigger games market than the PC games market is today.

First off, the PS3 has a horrible games line-up, not an "impressive" one. Secondly, a Blu-ray player doesn't mean ANYTHING since the MAJORITY of the population doesn't give a crap about having one. Thirdly, browsing the internet on the PS3 is retarded. And the main point I was making is that the PS3 should NOT be compared to a computer since it is SUPPOSED to be a game console. And like I already said, a computer is mainly a business machine that does entertainment as a SECONDARY function, which means you should not expect it to be the best game machine. However, the PS3 is SUPPOSED to be primarily a game machine, too bad it sucks as one right now since Sony is too busy making it do other useless crap.

MikeB said: @ Solidar Except computers have 1000x the functions of a PS3 and the price of a computer can range from a few hundred to several thousand dollars Some notes: - A PC for a few 100 bucks won't come with a Blu-Ray player - You can install like like me on a PS3 and use it for office tasks, chatting, webbrowsing, so the most popular PC tasks. - PS3 consumers don't buy the device for general computing tasks, the PS3 has an impressive games line-up and a great PS2+PS3 games library, all features are ofterred pretty seamlessly through an easy to understand user interface compared to a PC operating system. Want to play a game? Insert the disc and play away, want to watch a Blu-Ray movie, insert disc and watch. Want to browse the web? Even a webbrowser is integrated, allowing you to easily browse the web on your TV, etc. - Problems like with PCs (spyware, trojans, virusses, etc), driver issues, hardware specs which don't match the game you're interested in well enough, etc are pretty much non-existant. - Games will be optimised for the PS3, allowing developers to get the most out of the system in course of time. On the PC you will always have to watch out of better hardware to run your game with the specs it was designed for and usually the true optimal performance cannot be achieved as there are so many different available specs. Maybe now you better understand why the PC gaming market has degraded so much the last couple of years. Even XBox consoles offers a bigger games market than the PC games market is today.

And for the majority of people who already have a computer and don't want bluray?  You're badly missing the point here, the argument isn't that the PS3 can be seen as a good value, it's whether Sony has made the PS3 in a way that that most consumers don't view it as a good value.  If you love the PS3, great, enjoy the cheaper added functionality, but don't expect that to translate into greater sales. To reiterate, that is the point here, Sony got confused about what the PS3 is supposed to be and it is hurting total sales (not that it is hurting sales to or the enjoyment of MikeB or that all things being equal the PS3 is or isn't a good value). 

MikeB said: @ Sqrl The problem with the whole "just wait" thing is that is exactly what people are doing. Why pay $600 for something now when it won't be really put to use for a year or more? And I don't see a problem with that. If the PS3 would have an installed base of well over 100 million right now, it would put Sony in serious financial problems. Currently the are profitable, adding value to the PS3 step by step, with the install base gradually increasing.

I said that so I don't know why you're @ing Sqrl. And c'mon. That is complete BS. You're going to tell me that over 2 million unsold units of the PS3 is a good thing? If you don't sell it, instead of loosing $200, you've lost $800. And then of course, they're loosing more like $300 a console now (because they're still selling the consoles they made before hardware prices started going down for them).

albionus said: MikeB said: @ Solidar Except computers have 1000x the functions of a PS3 and the price of a computer can range from a few hundred to several thousand dollars Some notes: - A PC for a few 100 bucks won't come with a Blu-Ray player - You can install like like me on a PS3 and use it for office tasks, chatting, webbrowsing, so the most popular PC tasks. - PS3 consumers don't buy the device for general computing tasks, the PS3 has an impressive games line-up and a great PS2+PS3 games library, all features are ofterred pretty seamlessly through an easy to understand user interface compared to a PC operating system. Want to play a game? Insert the disc and play away, want to watch a Blu-Ray movie, insert disc and watch. Want to browse the web? Even a webbrowser is integrated, allowing you to easily browse the web on your TV, etc. - Problems like with PCs (spyware, trojans, virusses, etc), driver issues, hardware specs which don't match the game you're interested in well enough, etc are pretty much non-existant. - Games will be optimised for the PS3, allowing developers to get the most out of the system in course of time. On the PC you will always have to watch out of better hardware to run your game with the specs it was designed for and usually the true optimal performance cannot be achieved as there are so many different available specs. Maybe now you better understand why the PC gaming market has degraded so much the last couple of years. Even XBox consoles offers a bigger games market than the PC games market is today. And for the majority of people who already have a computer and don't want bluray?  You're badly missing the point here, the argument isn't that the PS3 can be seen as a good value, it's whether Sony has made the PS3 in a way that that most consumers don't view it as a good value.  If you love the PS3, great, enjoy the cheaper added functionality, but don't expect that to translate into greater sales. To reiterate, that is the point here, Sony got confused about what the PS3 is supposed to be and it is hurting total sales (not that it is hurting sales to or the enjoyment of MikeB).

Well said Albionus.