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Third parties pull a fast one and blame Nintendo for their own crappy games

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Pristine20 said:

 

As noname pointed out, capcom said that many devs come into the industry to make the next doom or halo. The wii is not congruent with their state of mind.

As for the GC, back then the #1 console "made sense" (was the type of thing they were used to) so the supported stayed with #1.

 

 

Stayed with with #1 and the xbox, mostly.

Actaully, the GC had better 3rd party support than the wii does. Bloody ironic.



 

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Anyway.

I enjoyed playing Super Mario World 2 lately.

Mmm, what simple graphics can be.



Numbers: Checker Players > Halo Players

Checkers Age and replayability > Halo Age and replayability

Therefore, Checkers > Halo

So, Checkers is a better game than Halo.

Pristine20 said:
noname2200 said:

It may explain, but it doesn't excuse (and I know you're not excusing, I'm just making a general point). Developers need to remember that they're here to please us, not themselves. To use a personal example, it doesn't matter if I think my client's asking for more than he deserves; he's my client, and I'm here to serve him to the best of my abilities, my personal feelings be damned.

 

It's not an excuse but most Humans are lazy (devs included). Being an artist is also a very difficult thing. I don't know of any artist that doesn't like their own work. This is why most devs keep having trouble with the wii. It's bad that they're having trouble doing their job but we really should cut them some slack. I prefer using a ps3 for gaming and honestly, if I was a developer, I wouldn't know what to release on wii either.

I've heard the artist analogy used before, but I don't buy it. As far as I can tell, the vast majority of the greatest artworks we have were made by commission, not because the artist was free to do what interested him. Most of the works that we treasure the most were made because someone paid the artist to do X for them, not because one day the artist decided to make The Thinker, or compose a symphony.

It's a cheap shot, but much of modern art follows the "let the artist do what he wants" model of thinking. And I doubt I'm in the minority when I say modern art blows...

Anyhow, it's like bodhesatva said in this thread: "I think the answer to these developers is "too bad." I don't get to do exactly what I want at my job, either. This furthers my sense of developers as little man-children, who want to do what THEY want, and not what consumers want. As a database administrator for a hospital, I'd be fired almost instantly if I did everything "my way" despite requests to the contrary from my customers."

Put alternatively, if we cut developers slack for not liking their job (i.e. developing for the Wii) we'd have to extend the same excuse to every person we hire, from your doctor (who didn't really want to go to med school) to your cashier (who hates his job and, by extension, you). And if developers don't do a good job of developing for the Wii, because it's different than what they're used to, then the market will just have to find developers who do do a good job. I'm sure that, with time, that will become increasingly the case, even if many Western developers prefer to ride out this generation.

 



11ht11 said:
i dont even know why i replied to your post >_>, well im done arguing good day ma'am

 

Ma'am? Aya Brea turned me into a woman lol.



"Dr. Tenma, according to you, lives are equal. That's why I live today. But you must have realised it by now...the only thing people are equal in is death"---Johann Liebert (MONSTER)

"WAR is a racket. It always has been.

It is possibly the oldest, easily the most profitable, surely the most vicious. It is the only one international in scope. It is the only one in which the profits are reckoned in dollars and the losses in lives"---Maj. Gen. Smedley Butler

God ****. All I can do is face palm.

"But Nintendo chose to go down this path of less-powerful, lost-cost hardware, and one side effect of that decision is that some games simply cannot be ported over."

This line sums up the problem. Ehem..............
WHY DON'T YOU JUST MAKING A ****ING WII GAME THEN.

Look, really easy concept. Don't port. There done. Instead, make a game on the low hardware system. This is not a new concept. For the last 7 generations of so there have been plenty of console exclusives. It has only been recently that the port fest has started. Every console has had some game that was a console exclusive. This is not a new and foreign concept. It is only becuase you are making games for a system that isn't "powerful technology" it's "technology that over-shot the average consumer".

OH, and about the fact that it's Nintendo's fault becuase the hard ware is weak. HELLO PS2 anyone. That was the weakest of the three consoles (excluding the Dreamcast). Developers had NO problem making console exclusives there. Heck, they didn't have a problem of porting either. Many developers and publishers made games for multiple systems. So, why now is it a problem that the Wii is underpowered.

It's not. It's becuase third party developers don't want to make "non-games," or, better yet, they don't want to try. Look, you guys are making games TO MAKE MONEY. The president of Square-Enix is threating to fire anyone who makes games they want to play. It's about making what sells. I don't care how bad you want to make the next Doom, but that isn't want will make you money. It will loss you money becuase of the high cost, low return model. So instead of making a Wii game (with low cost, high return but more geared towards non-gamers) they make a big budget game that no one will buy. *applause*

This is the idiocy of the industry. This man right here. Reggie wasn't pointing a figure, he was pitying you. Nintendo could have no 3rd party support and still the consoles wouldn't be able to stay on the shelves. If none of the developers make a Wii game, then they'll just be left behind to play catch-up. It's the same concept as supporting a start up company. The early adopters will be rich, and everyone else will play catch up. Since Nintendo plans to disrupt the industry it will likely be that all the other developers will become small no-name developers only popular in small circles.

So shut up and actually make a good Wii game.



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vdoesntforgive said:
Pristine20 said:

 

As noname pointed out, capcom said that many devs come into the industry to make the next doom or halo. The wii is not congruent with their state of mind.

As for the GC, back then the #1 console "made sense" (was the type of thing they were used to) so the supported stayed with #1.

 

 

Stayed with with #1 and the xbox, mostly.

Actaully, the GC had better 3rd party support than the wii does. Bloody ironic.

 

It's not ironic at all if you've been following my points. GC was a traditional console like everything else before it. It "made sense" to 3rd parties. The wii? Not so much.



"Dr. Tenma, according to you, lives are equal. That's why I live today. But you must have realised it by now...the only thing people are equal in is death"---Johann Liebert (MONSTER)

"WAR is a racket. It always has been.

It is possibly the oldest, easily the most profitable, surely the most vicious. It is the only one international in scope. It is the only one in which the profits are reckoned in dollars and the losses in lives"---Maj. Gen. Smedley Butler

That's the second warning from Nintendo.
Nintendo won't do much more for stupid 3rd parties. Surely Nintendo is seeing what is to come next.
The stupid (mostly western) 3rd parties already are shedding bitter tears, but the backlash they're starting to feel is only the tip of the iceberg.
They're losing money left and right and Nintendo is getting a huge marketshare of games sold.
The Wii is crushing the competition, and all these new players will make their mind with the current situation, or the current generation: the only good games come from Nintendo.
The tide wave will be worse with time passing.
I pity the stupid 3rd parties, but they deserve what they'll get, really.
It's already apparent: their hardcore market has started to shrink. Also, they can't produce games fast enough.

Anyway, a home console is not the DS. The DS endured the same stupid 3rd parties, but development time is less than on a home console. The 3rd parties situation is horrendous already on the Wii, and I don't see a lot of them getting out of this.
All the profits they should be making are transferred to Nintendo, by their own doing: they left money on the table, and Nintendo just took it. Now they have insane profits, bigger than the 20 best 3rd parties put together.



noname2200 said:
Pristine20 said:
noname2200 said:

It may explain, but it doesn't excuse (and I know you're not excusing, I'm just making a general point). Developers need to remember that they're here to please us, not themselves. To use a personal example, it doesn't matter if I think my client's asking for more than he deserves; he's my client, and I'm here to serve him to the best of my abilities, my personal feelings be damned.

 

It's not an excuse but most Humans are lazy (devs included). Being an artist is also a very difficult thing. I don't know of any artist that doesn't like their own work. This is why most devs keep having trouble with the wii. It's bad that they're having trouble doing their job but we really should cut them some slack. I prefer using a ps3 for gaming and honestly, if I was a developer, I wouldn't know what to release on wii either.

I've heard the artist analogy used before, but I don't buy it. As far as I can tell, the vast majority of the greatest artworks we have were made by commission, not because the artist was free to do what interested him. Most of the works that we treasure the most were made because someone paid the artist to do X for them, not because one day the artist decided to make The Thinker, or compose a symphony.

It's a cheap shot, but much of modern art follows the "let the artist do what he wants" model of thinking. And I doubt I'm in the minority when I say modern art blows...

Anyhow, it's like bodhesatva said in this thread: "I think the answer to these developers is "too bad." I don't get to do exactly what I want at my job, either. This furthers my sense of developers as little man-children, who want to do what THEY want, and not what consumers want. As a database administrator for a hospital, I'd be fired almost instantly if I did everything "my way" despite requests to the contrary from my customers."

Put alternatively, if we cut developers slack for not liking their job (i.e. developing for the Wii) we'd have to extend the same excuse to every person we hire, from your doctor (who didn't really want to go to med school) to your cashier (who hates his job and, by extension, you). And if developers don't do a good job of developing for the Wii, because it's different than what they're used to, then the market will just have to find developers who do do a good job. I'm sure that, with time, that will become increasingly the case, even if many Western developers prefer to ride out this generation.

 

I agree with the 2nd half of your post, with the "too bad" argument and calling them little man-children.  Right on the money.

But I disagree with your view of modern art.  I think the greatest artists of the 20th century were doing whatever they wanted.  I'm not saying all artists who do whatever they want are good artists.  But I do believe that the majority of the greatest artists work that way.  My examples shall be: Marcel Duchamp, David Lynch, Shigeru Miyamoto, David Bowie, Brian Eno, the Residents, the Beatles, Frank Zappa, Pablo Picasso, Kraftwerk, Devo, Luis Buñuel, Salvador Dalí, John Cage, Bruce Cornell, Björk, and even Walt Disney.



noname2200 said:
Pristine20 said:
noname2200 said:

It may explain, but it doesn't excuse (and I know you're not excusing, I'm just making a general point). Developers need to remember that they're here to please us, not themselves. To use a personal example, it doesn't matter if I think my client's asking for more than he deserves; he's my client, and I'm here to serve him to the best of my abilities, my personal feelings be damned.

 

It's not an excuse but most Humans are lazy (devs included). Being an artist is also a very difficult thing. I don't know of any artist that doesn't like their own work. This is why most devs keep having trouble with the wii. It's bad that they're having trouble doing their job but we really should cut them some slack. I prefer using a ps3 for gaming and honestly, if I was a developer, I wouldn't know what to release on wii either.

I've heard the artist analogy used before, but I don't buy it. As far as I can tell, the vast majority of the greatest artworks we have were made by commission, not because the artist was free to do what interested him. Most of the works that we treasure the most were made because someone paid the artist to do X for them, not because one day the artist decided to make The Thinker, or compose a symphony.

It's a cheap shot, but much of modern art follows the "let the artist do what he wants" model of thinking. And I doubt I'm in the minority when I say modern art blows...

Anyhow, it's like bodhesatva said in this thread: "I think the answer to these developers is "too bad." I don't get to do exactly what I want at my job, either. This furthers my sense of developers as little man-children, who want to do what THEY want, and not what consumers want. As a database administrator for a hospital, I'd be fired almost instantly if I did everything "my way" despite requests to the contrary from my customers."

Put alternatively, if we cut developers slack for not liking their job (i.e. developing for the Wii) we'd have to extend the same excuse to every person we hire, from your doctor (who didn't really want to go to med school) to your cashier (who hates his job and, by extension, you). And if developers don't do a good job of developing for the Wii, because it's different than what they're used to, then the market will just have to find developers who do do a good job. I'm sure that, with time, that will become increasingly the case, even if many Western developers prefer to ride out this generation.

 

They get away with it because they can hide behind the ps360. For example, some pharmacists don't dispense "birth control" pills because it's against their "pro-life" views. However, they dispense other drugs to other people. these pharmacists still have a job because they can get away with it. This is why most 3rd party devs won't change. Some will though, however, they aren't forced to change. It feels almost voluntary. And it seems like the bosses themselves are the most "stuck" in their old ways.

With nintendo, it's also possible that their own regular devs don't want to release wii-compatible games, however, miyamoto is the boss over there and shows them the way. This is different for 3rd parties.

You're right about artists now that I think about it lol. Maybe the problem in gaming is that the PS360 crowd are generally "louder" than the wii crowd. Hence, their voices remain prioritized by even the video game media not just devs.

 



"Dr. Tenma, according to you, lives are equal. That's why I live today. But you must have realised it by now...the only thing people are equal in is death"---Johann Liebert (MONSTER)

"WAR is a racket. It always has been.

It is possibly the oldest, easily the most profitable, surely the most vicious. It is the only one international in scope. It is the only one in which the profits are reckoned in dollars and the losses in lives"---Maj. Gen. Smedley Butler

ookaze said:
That's the second warning from Nintendo.
Nintendo won't do much more for stupid 3rd parties. Surely Nintendo is seeing what is to come next.
The stupid (mostly western) 3rd parties already are shedding bitter tears, but the backlash they're starting to feel is only the tip of the iceberg.
They're losing money left and right and Nintendo is getting a huge marketshare of games sold.
The Wii is crushing the competition, and all these new players will make their mind with the current situation, or the current generation: the only good games come from Nintendo.
The tide wave will be worse with time passing.
I pity the stupid 3rd parties, but they deserve what they'll get, really.
It's already apparent: their hardcore market has started to shrink. Also, they can't produce games fast enough.

Anyway, a home console is not the DS. The DS endured the same stupid 3rd parties, but development time is less than on a home console. The 3rd parties situation is horrendous already on the Wii, and I don't see a lot of them getting out of this.
All the profits they should be making are transferred to Nintendo, by their own doing: they left money on the table, and Nintendo just took it. Now they have insane profits, bigger than the 20 best 3rd parties put together.

Way to go around insulting tons of people. perhaps you should try to understand where they are coming from first?

 



"Dr. Tenma, according to you, lives are equal. That's why I live today. But you must have realised it by now...the only thing people are equal in is death"---Johann Liebert (MONSTER)

"WAR is a racket. It always has been.

It is possibly the oldest, easily the most profitable, surely the most vicious. It is the only one international in scope. It is the only one in which the profits are reckoned in dollars and the losses in lives"---Maj. Gen. Smedley Butler