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X360 Premium 60GB bundle for the same price as a Wii?!?

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drkohler said:
Squilliam said:
drkohler said:
mrstickball said:
drkohler said:
superchunk said:
I wonder if 360 is profitable with all these discounts. Probably is.

Manufacturing costs are around $250 for an XBox360. You do the math..

I'd love to see where you came up with $250 from.

A.) You don't know the yields/cost of the chips, B.) You don't know the manufacturing defect rate, C.) You don't know the ongoing warranty costs, D.) You don't know what costing model they use

Obviously nobody knows the yields of the PS3/XBox processors and the exact prices negotiated between the companies (except the parties involved and IBM certainly is not going to tell us). However, rough estimates on yields are known and even if there were uncertainties in the 10-20% range, that would yield to roughly the same differences in chip prices, which again would result in price differences in the single $ digits. None of the other points you bring up have _anything at all_ to do with estimating the manufacturing costs. It really is important to have insight into mass manufacturing processes (and how expensive things are on that level - and I have come across many surprises within the past 25 years when I tried to estimate stuff without knowing the facts behind them) when trying to figure out the manufacturing of a mass market gadget (something you obviously lack so don't make up invalid points to argue).

 

 

 Yields are a closely guarded secret. So really inferring Xbox CPU/GPU yields from information on other processes, which is at best a good estimate isn't going to give you an accurate picture. So really, if you want to back up your earlier statement tell me your estimated cost for both the Xenon and the Xenos Cpu given your estimated yields and the die size can be found on http://www.anandtech.com/gadgets/showdoc.aspx?i=3152&p=3 as well as pictures of the internal components.

So what I really want to know is this. How much does it cost for each Wafer, how many chips/working chips can be produced on every wafer and the packaging and testing costs which should yield the price per chip. To help you out the GPU is produced on TSMCs 80nm process and the CPU is produced on TSMCs 65nm process.



Tease.

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drkohler said:
mrstickball said:
drkohler said:
superchunk said:
I wonder if 360 is profitable with all these discounts. Probably is.

Manufacturing costs are around $250 for an XBox360. You do the math..

I'd love to see where you came up with $250 from.

a) I've seen what is inside of it   b) I have 25 years of experience in mass manufacturing industries   c) I hav actually built computers for a while (over 20 years ago, though)  d) you can find estimates in technology forums that coincide with this value   e) You can compare to the PS3 and make cross reference estimates    f) I just make these numbers up (if you don't like a to e).

 

Aw, give me a break. 13 months ago you were going off about how PS3s manufactured at that time were already profitable. Confirmation is still nowhere to be seen.

 



My Mario Kart Wii friend code: 2707-1866-0957

Yep Nintendo have the software and better interface and games which allows them to Whip the X360 in sales - and they sell at a profit - MS must be bleeding alot of $$ to sell the 60G for under the price of a Wii - Still right this week the X360 is doing awesone Software sales so overall MS are just growing their market and not loosing alot, which is good when considering their antiquated interface compared with the Wii. Nintendo are doing stellar sales and profits.
Sony trailing along in 3rd they have fallen from first place to 3rd , MS holding at 2nd and Nintendo are light years ahead at 1.



PS3 number 1 fan

Well I bought a 60gb Premium with Fallout 3 and Pro Evo for £190. That's £10 more than I paid for my Wii at launch. I also had the alternative of getting it with Sega Superstar Tennis and some other silly game for £170 or getting the Premium with Fable 2 for £170. Don't think it gets anymore aggressive than that.



Biggest Pikmin Fan on VGChartz I was chosen by default due to voting irregularities

Super Smash Brawl Code 1762-4158-5677 Send me a message if you want to receive a beat down

 

Don't think it's MS who bleed all the money, it's more likely the retailers who do just so they can get more costumers, and maybe earn a bit of money buy selling games instead.



If it isn't turnbased it isn't worth playing   (mostly)

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For Thee, my Lord, for Thee. Power hath descended forth from Thy hand, That our feet may swiftly carry out Thy command. So we shall flow a river forth to Thee And teeming with souls shall it ever be. In Nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritūs Sancti. -----The Boondock Saints

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NJ5 said:

Aw, give me a break. 13 months ago you were going off about how PS3s manufactured at that time were already profitable. Confirmation is still nowhere to be seen.

 

 

And with that he's never gonna be seen in the thread again.





Current-gen game collection uploaded on the profile, full of win and good games; also most of my PC games. Lucasfilm Games/LucasArts 1982-2008 (Requiescat In Pace).

NJ5 said:

Aw, give me a break. 13 months ago you were going off about how PS3s manufactured at that time were already profitable. Confirmation is still nowhere to be seen.

Reread what I wrote then and now and don't jump to false conclusions. I've never said PS3 was profitable. I said PS3s manufactured for Europe at that time (estimate mf costs around $380) were profitable on the manufacturing level (with av. sales price $600 over Europe).

Bitmap Frogs: Obviously you have no experience in industrial mass manufacturing processes, so don't comment on other people's contributions (particularly if they do have those experiences).



Xmas sales of X360 in all regions will be huge due to its attractive price tag and large games library. However the Wii will sell more than double X360 due to the Wii's more wider appeal to children, casuals and all females. X360 and PS3 are targeted mainly at selling to young males.



 

Squilliam said:

 

 Yields are a closely guarded secret. So really inferring Xbox CPU/GPU yields from information on other processes, which is at best a good estimate isn't going to give you an accurate picture. So really, if you want to back up your earlier statement tell me your estimated cost for both the Xenon and the Xenos Cpu given your estimated yields and the die size can be found on http://www.anandtech.com/gadgets/showdoc.aspx?i=3152&p=3 as well as pictures of the internal components.

So what I really want to know is this. How much does it cost for each Wafer, how many chips/working chips can be produced on every wafer and the packaging and testing costs which should yield the price per chip. To help you out the GPU is produced on TSMCs 80nm process and the CPU is produced on TSMCs 65nm process.

The link you provided only seems to shows that MS went from a three phase to a two phase power regulator circuit. Saves you two mosfets/capacitors/coils = $2 on the new motherboards, if you really wanted to know.

What you really want to know is what any fab is never going to tell you. Imagine a machine where you put in a wafer and $10'000 on one end and on the other end, you get chips out. Die sizes are known for the chips so you can approximately calculate how many chips fall out of the other end. How many of those chips are actually working? They're not going to tell you. From the initial runs of cell processor chips, IBM was quoted at around 14% for 8 SPE chips and around 34% for 7 SPE chips (the ones used in the PS3). Rumour has it that initial runs of X360 processor chips were even lower than for cell chips... Technically, all "big chips" used in the PS3/XBox should not cost more than $40 to manufacture once the problems are solved.

 



muahahaha yes! Like I was saying the other day the 360 is better value for money then a wii now! The day after I head about the new bundle I was out there first thing in the morning, 9am on the dot! and boy am I glad! I never really cared about HD consoles because of the price but goodness, I cant believe I payed $399AU for my wii now that the 360 is THE SAME PRICE WITH GAMES!

In Australia we get the 60 gig with assassins creed, kung fu panda and indiana jones, and then I got a new remote and viva pinata and forza 2 for another $100AU making my total package like $500!!!! I only got the wii and zelda for that price! n their still that price! madness!



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