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Forums - Sony Discussion - MGS4 : the same old crappy gameplay with better visuals ?

rubido said:
If you look at it from a company's perspective, hype is more important than gameplay. An extremely hyped sucky game sells great. A great unknown brand sells mediocre.

Hype drives sales and reviews so much these days that you see some really crazy things going around. The first one I saw was when gamespot gave twilight princess a low score. Fans everywhere bashed gamespot to death without ever having played the game. The second one I see right now is Killzone. Many people state that it will be a game of the year even though the first one wasn't that great. What drives these random acts? Hype!

With that said, it may seem that hype by itself is a bad thing. But the problem that can happen is a game not have enough hype before it comes out. Something like Okami. Then a great game doesn't sell as well as it should because it is unknown.

Hyping a game so that people want it no matter if it is good or not is evil. But for cases like Okami, it is a necessary evil. So I wouldn't bashing an overhyped game. Specially in the case of a franchise that has proven itself and is still using the same team as before.

The only problem with hype is when consumer expectations don't match the hype. Case in point: Batman (the Keaton/Nicholson one). That movie was hyped to high heaven but in reality the movie failed to live up to the hype.  Therefore, it became a bit of a hit-and-miss with critics and viewers alike.

That didn't stop the movie from grossing millions and breaking records, however! It's still the one that grossed the most worldwide, despite having the lowest of all budgets. 



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Beyond Good And Evil.... I love that game thats one of my favorite games in the last generation. I wish a sequel was out



your mother said:
naznatips said:
Oh and Vizunary, for the record the best stealth game is Beyond Good and Evil, at least as far as overall game quality goes.

Really? Never played BG&E before, but the stealth is that good?

Have you tried Splinter Cell: Chaos Theory? If so, how does that compare to BG&E?

Edit: I would be more partial to MGS if they changed the controls which I felt were kinda wonky in MGS2, but as ckmlb stressed, for MGS4 they have tightened the controls where it worked before and overhauling the controls where they were iffy before - that sounds good in my book, and hopefully will change the gameplay to something more to my liking.


Affraid I have never played Splinter Cell Chaos Theory so I can't compare them, but I have played all the MGS games. Let me say that the stealth in BG&E is about tactics and timing, not gadgets or anything of the sort. BG&E is practically the definition of a perfect game IMO. The gameplay is great, the graphics are good (very good for when it was made) and the plot is deep, engaging, will make you laugh, and 5 minutes later will make you cry (perhaps my favoritey plot of all time). The characters are interesting, deep, and have unique and engaging personalities.  The music is great as well. Unfortunately, BG&E was never advertised, and despite being easily one of the best games of the last generation it was overlooked. I recomend everyone looking for a truly complete and amazing gaming experience play this game. You will NOT regret it.



naznatips said:
your mother said:
naznatips said:
Oh and Vizunary, for the record the best stealth game is Beyond Good and Evil, at least as far as overall game quality goes.

Really? Never played BG&E before, but the stealth is that good?

Have you tried Splinter Cell: Chaos Theory? If so, how does that compare to BG&E?

Edit: I would be more partial to MGS if they changed the controls which I felt were kinda wonky in MGS2, but as ckmlb stressed, for MGS4 they have tightened the controls where it worked before and overhauling the controls where they were iffy before - that sounds good in my book, and hopefully will change the gameplay to something more to my liking.


Affraid I have never played Splinter Cell Chaos Theory so I can't compare them, but I have played all the MGS games. Let me say that the stealth in BG&E is about tactics and timing, not gadgets or anything of the sort. BG&E is practically the definition of a perfect game IMO. The gameplay is great, the graphics are good (very good for when it was made) and the plot is deep, engaging, will make you laugh, and 5 minutes later will make you cry (perhaps my favoritey plot of all time). The characters are interesting, deep, and have unique and engaging personalities. The music is great as well. Unfortunately, BG&E was never advertised, and despite being easily one of the best games of the last generation it was overlooked. I recomend everyone looking for a truly complete and amazing gaming experience play this game. You will NOT regret it.


In that case, I can heartily recommend Splinter Cell: Chaos Theory. Its stealth is awesome (IMO much better than in MGS2), its loaded with funky gadgets, and has a fantastically fun coop mode and a multiplayer component where you are either a mercenary or spy (each with their own unique attributes and gadgets).

What's great about the game is you can use all sorts of techniques to pass each mission: Kill, immobilize or simply not being seen. There are in fact only three people you are required to kill in the entire game, and you actually get points knocked off for killing people unneccessarily (you start each mission with 100% completion rate - that percentage is knocked off for being detected or for killing the enemy).  The replay value is tremendous.

You can get the game for the Xbox or for the PC.

I will definitely pick up a copy of BG&E - I've heard several things about the game, all good comments so far! 



I'll be sure to check out SC:CT then too :)



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your mother said:
rubido said:

The only problem with hype is when consumer expectations don't match the hype. Case in point: Batman (the Keaton/Nicholson one). That movie was hyped to high heaven but in reality the movie failed to live up to the hype. Therefore, it became a bit of a hit-and-miss with critics and viewers alike.

That didn't stop the movie from grossing millions and breaking records, however! It's still the one that grossed the most worldwide, despite having the lowest of all budgets.


Your case is the problem with hyping. However, I wanted to point to the other problem: not hyping. Isn't it unfair for a good game to not sell because it was not hyped before?

 

I actually liked this post so that I could mention what I thought about hype. Today, I have the idea that the most important factor for a game to sell well is hype. A game that comes out of nowhere doesn't sell well even if it gets great reviews everywhere. I mentioned Okami. Another example is Psychonauts. I guess everyone can get their own example of the other way around. An overhyped game that did not live up to its expectations.

 

Is hype more important than gameplay for selling a game? If it is, can we really criticise a company for hyping their product?



If anything this is the first big game series that I see really being overhauled for next gen outside of graphics.

I mean what franchise so far that has gone next gen really looks that different? Halo is the same Halo with new graphics, Devil May Cry is the same game, Ratchet looks the same game essentially with better graphics, Mario is the same game but set in space, and so on...

If this guy was expecting them to completely change the franchise then he's an idiot, why would you fix something that isn't broken?

Also, everything from the more action oriented gameplay to first person view choice to changing what Metal Gear Solid was about (sneaking into bases) to sneaking on the battlefield is the biggest change up I have seen out of any big franchise so far. So I dunno what this guy was expecting but he must be dreaming if he was actually expecting more of a shift in MGS.

I expected much less and up till the gameplay demo expecte MGS with better gaphics and a continuation of the story, but the demo changed my mind totally and I am a bigger fan of MGS now with really really high hopes for 4.

Also, this guy acts like Splinter Cell has been revolutionary or whatnot, it definitely hasn't. I dunno how much change the next Splinter Cell Conviction game will bring but the last Splinter Cell game was a total letdown. Never played Thief so I can't comment on that one.

Edit: I forgot about GTA that looks to be an actual next gen overhaul of a last gen popular franchise. But that one is more with taking what was established and perfecting it, MGS 4 is actually bringing change to MGS as whole while keeping the essentials for parts of the game. Think of it this way: MGS was a stealth/action game with 80% stealth and 20% action let's say and now it's going to be a lot more like a 40% stealth, 40% action and 20% shooter (3rd or 1st person).



Thanks to Blacksaber for the sig!

Well, the hype machine is running all the time in the game industry, so high expectations are nothing new. But Torres is forgetting that Hideo Kojima has always - repeat, ALWAYS - exceeded expectations. The man is a true genius, the Satoshi Kon of the videogame world.

I defy anyone to find stealth thrillers with the emotional intensity, nail-biting suspense, slam-bang boss battles, superb voice-acting, and smoothly integrated game-play of the MGS series. They don't exist. Splinter Cell and other thrillers have some great moments and game-play. But there has to be more going on than Defeat-Evil-Boss- No.-497-Bent-on-Acquiring-Globe-Threatening-Weapon-No.-685.

MGS has always delivered. It took chances to evolve, it took chances to change its characters, it took chances to tell stories which are painful and/or politically scandalous. The stories in MGS3 are just heart-rending, you want to cry, tear your hair out, howl at the heavens. You care that much about the characters. Kojima somehow managed to transmit something of the pain and sorrow (bad puns, I know) of the Cold War era, its appalling violence and unwritten heroism.

With MGS4, I think Kojima is aiming higher, at the very heart of post-Cold War geopolitics. His question: do we repeat the catastrophes of the 19th and 20th centuries? Or do the 6.5 billion of us on this exceedingly fragile planet put the guns of narrow-minded patriotism away and grow up as a species? The future depends on Snake - and, by extension, all of us.



Smashchu said:
Well, first, reviews are hardcore gamers, so they'll like it.

There is definatly some truth to it. I feel the the hype is a bit over rated, to the point where people think it can take on Halo. This game can't even take on Metrois Prime 3(a little much, but you know what I mean).

I enjoyed MGS:TS, but I think that he's right, their are better action games out thier, as well as better stelth games.

Holy Shit it is F@#$$# Funny that some one who says MGS is overrated and over hyped would bring up a game like Halo ....the most over hyped game ever



This guy is retarded. The gameplay looked significantly better than previous iterations of the series. The camouflage system was AWESOME, sorry that they actually added something new, which seems to be exactly what he was complaining about. I also really liked the injury system too. The CQC stuff was good, sometimes took some getting used too, but on the whole MGS3 added plenty of new things that people often overlook.

MGS4 looks like it plays extremely different from the others. The aiming has evolved CONSIDERABLY and everything seems more responsive and dynamic.

And so what if a game actually has a story? Sorry, but I am more often turned off when a game doesn't have a story. MGS2 did go a little bit too far, I will agree, but MGS3 had almost perfect storytelling. MGS4 looks like it will follow that trend. This guy has no idea what he is talking about, the game in no way shape or form looks like it will dissapoint.



We had two bags of grass, seventy-five pellets of mescaline, five sheets of high-powered blotter acid, a salt shaker half full of cocaine, a whole galaxy of multi-colored uppers, downers, screamers, laughers…Also a quart of tequila, a quart of rum, a case of beer, a pint of raw ether and two dozen amyls.  The only thing that really worried me was the ether.  There is nothing in the world more helpless and irresponsible and depraved than a man in the depths of an ether binge. –Raoul Duke

It is hard to shed anything but crocodile tears over White House speechwriter Patrick Buchanan's tragic analysis of the Nixon debacle. "It's like Sisyphus," he said. "We rolled the rock all the way up the mountain...and it rolled right back down on us...."  Neither Sisyphus nor the commander of the Light Brigade nor Pat Buchanan had the time or any real inclination to question what they were doing...a martyr, to the bitter end, to a "flawed" cause and a narrow, atavistic concept of conservative politics that has done more damage to itself and the country in less than six years than its liberal enemies could have done in two or three decades. -Hunter S. Thompson