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Lingyis said:
ssj12 said:
The general fact that they passed Sony makes no sense. Sony makes way more products that Nintendo doesnt. Sony makes computers, TVs, CD Players, Movies, owns a music company, makes car audio, stereos, game consoles, and handhelds. Nintendo made board games (do they still do this?) then moved to consoles and handhelds. Nintendo's stock is nothing more then inflated stock that will crash down like the Chinese stock market eventually.

a) nobody is saying "general" fact. it's just one measure--but an important one.

b) you're looking at revenue. if revenue is all that matters, GM or Ford would be worth a lot more.

c) inflated stock price: that's your opinion. i've thought for years Google and Apple stock are way overvalued, and nothing has stopped them yet. and now they're both worth about 3 times as much as Sony. not saying Nintendo can keep growing forever, just saying that your guess, my guess, and everybody's guess "average out" to the current stock price, and nobody knows what the future hold.

 

the market cap is a non-intuitive measure. i remember many years ago when Microsoft first passed big blue, aka IBM in stock market capitalization, many people had similar discussions. they say, "it makes no sense", "Microsoft stock will fall", "IBM still have way bigger revenue, way more employees, they just need to turn it around". guess what, it stayed that way. and even today, IBM has double Microsoft's revenue and 4 times as many employees. Microsoft simple is more PROFITABLE. today, Google has a bigger market cap, i.e. "more valuable" than IBM--does that make any sense? hey, that's what market cap is. sometimes it's non-sensible, but to some, it's more than sensible, otherwise they wouldn't be valuing the company at that price. that's how equities work.

sony will probably do okay. the flat panel business is going through a boom right now, and apparently people are still slow to react. as long as the PS3 business starts recovering, they'll do more than okay. of course, bad things can still happen, like the chinese marginalizing the flat panel market. but sony appears to be selling on the back of quality once again, and that's something the chinese can't assault anytime soon. sony seems like it's starting to get back on its feet, but that's just my opinion.


 since you brought up microsoft. Im still honestly shocked their corporation hasnt fallen in on itself. Especially since they were so nice to copy OSX completely with Vista. I would have figured investors would have taken notice on some illegal activities there. 



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naznatips said:
your mother said:
FishyJoe said:
The best thing to do would be to look up for yourself the reasons to what constitutes a 'valuable' company. The opinions of others can be useful, but only AFTER you have a solid understanding of the fundamentals. Unfortunately, most fanboys have no concept of the fundamentals such as earnings and growth.

That would be the best thing to do if you didn't know, but I seriously want to see why vizunary thinks the article is bovine manure...

Personally, Nintendo as a company is, pound-per-pound a behemoth of a heavyweight. I know very few companies that can generate the profits they do with so few personnel. It's truly staggering.


I completely agree. The billions of profit they have made with what? 3000 employees I believe. That's impressive by any standard. People should just appreciate this and move on, not attack the article, the poster, and the company. It's not the end of the world for Sony by any means.


 I think the problem is that people aren't sure what this indicates.

Historically, Sony has controlled the market with their wallet: they buy up exclusives, lose money on the console at launch, buy up development houses, or pay for development of games from third parties. They do this all the time -- spend spend spend, to make it up later.

Well, a gut reaction might be: "Does this mean that Nintendo can outspend Sony now? Will Sony lose their wallet advantage?" And the answer is no. It's an understandable fear, but Nintendo clearly isn't playing that game in that way, and if they were, they wouldn't be making as much money and they wouldn't be competing with Sony's Market Cap. So please, fear not, Sony fans: Nintendo isn't about to start outspending Sony on development.  



http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a324/Arkives/Disccopy.jpg%5B/IMG%5D">http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a324/Arkives/Disccopy.jpg%5B/IMG%5D">

ssj12 said:
Lingyis said:
ssj12 said:
The general fact that they passed Sony makes no sense. Sony makes way more products that Nintendo doesnt. Sony makes computers, TVs, CD Players, Movies, owns a music company, makes car audio, stereos, game consoles, and handhelds. Nintendo made board games (do they still do this?) then moved to consoles and handhelds. Nintendo's stock is nothing more then inflated stock that will crash down like the Chinese stock market eventually.

a) nobody is saying "general" fact. it's just one measure--but an important one.

b) you're looking at revenue. if revenue is all that matters, GM or Ford would be worth a lot more.

c) inflated stock price: that's your opinion. i've thought for years Google and Apple stock are way overvalued, and nothing has stopped them yet. and now they're both worth about 3 times as much as Sony. not saying Nintendo can keep growing forever, just saying that your guess, my guess, and everybody's guess "average out" to the current stock price, and nobody knows what the future hold.

 

the market cap is a non-intuitive measure. i remember many years ago when Microsoft first passed big blue, aka IBM in stock market capitalization, many people had similar discussions. they say, "it makes no sense", "Microsoft stock will fall", "IBM still have way bigger revenue, way more employees, they just need to turn it around". guess what, it stayed that way. and even today, IBM has double Microsoft's revenue and 4 times as many employees. Microsoft simple is more PROFITABLE. today, Google has a bigger market cap, i.e. "more valuable" than IBM--does that make any sense? hey, that's what market cap is. sometimes it's non-sensible, but to some, it's more than sensible, otherwise they wouldn't be valuing the company at that price. that's how equities work.

sony will probably do okay. the flat panel business is going through a boom right now, and apparently people are still slow to react. as long as the PS3 business starts recovering, they'll do more than okay. of course, bad things can still happen, like the chinese marginalizing the flat panel market. but sony appears to be selling on the back of quality once again, and that's something the chinese can't assault anytime soon. sony seems like it's starting to get back on its feet, but that's just my opinion.


since you brought up microsoft. Im still honestly shocked their corporation hasnt fallen in on itself. Especially since they were so nice to copy OSX completely with Vista. I would have figured investors would have taken notice on some illegal activities there.


Microsoft is head and shoulders above Sony AND Nintendo. While you can argue that Sony has more revenue, Nintendo has more profits, Sony may be undervalued, Nintendo overvalued.. yadda, yadda. Microsoft beats both Sony and Nintendo in almost every concievable category: Market Cap, Profits, Revenue, and way, way more Financial Reserves. 

I think one could reasonably argue that Sony is still a bigger and more important than Nintendo is, on the whole. But there is no question that Microsoft is bigger than both of them. Even with possible qualms about Vista, that's not changing.



http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a324/Arkives/Disccopy.jpg%5B/IMG%5D">http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a324/Arkives/Disccopy.jpg%5B/IMG%5D">

yeah, for a while i wondered if nintendo is the most profitable company per employee in the world?

then i realized that if goldman sachs pays out an average of 440k bonus per employee last year, the successful hedge funds (on the order of 50 to 100 people) do even better, per employee.

but aside from financial companies nintendo's gotta be right up there.



the Wii is an epidemic.

Bodhesatva said:
ssj12 said:
Lingyis said:
ssj12 said:
The general fact that they passed Sony makes no sense. Sony makes way more products that Nintendo doesnt. Sony makes computers, TVs, CD Players, Movies, owns a music company, makes car audio, stereos, game consoles, and handhelds. Nintendo made board games (do they still do this?) then moved to consoles and handhelds. Nintendo's stock is nothing more then inflated stock that will crash down like the Chinese stock market eventually.

a) nobody is saying "general" fact. it's just one measure--but an important one.

b) you're looking at revenue. if revenue is all that matters, GM or Ford would be worth a lot more.

c) inflated stock price: that's your opinion. i've thought for years Google and Apple stock are way overvalued, and nothing has stopped them yet. and now they're both worth about 3 times as much as Sony. not saying Nintendo can keep growing forever, just saying that your guess, my guess, and everybody's guess "average out" to the current stock price, and nobody knows what the future hold.

 

the market cap is a non-intuitive measure. i remember many years ago when Microsoft first passed big blue, aka IBM in stock market capitalization, many people had similar discussions. they say, "it makes no sense", "Microsoft stock will fall", "IBM still have way bigger revenue, way more employees, they just need to turn it around". guess what, it stayed that way. and even today, IBM has double Microsoft's revenue and 4 times as many employees. Microsoft simple is more PROFITABLE. today, Google has a bigger market cap, i.e. "more valuable" than IBM--does that make any sense? hey, that's what market cap is. sometimes it's non-sensible, but to some, it's more than sensible, otherwise they wouldn't be valuing the company at that price. that's how equities work.

sony will probably do okay. the flat panel business is going through a boom right now, and apparently people are still slow to react. as long as the PS3 business starts recovering, they'll do more than okay. of course, bad things can still happen, like the chinese marginalizing the flat panel market. but sony appears to be selling on the back of quality once again, and that's something the chinese can't assault anytime soon. sony seems like it's starting to get back on its feet, but that's just my opinion.


since you brought up microsoft. Im still honestly shocked their corporation hasnt fallen in on itself. Especially since they were so nice to copy OSX completely with Vista. I would have figured investors would have taken notice on some illegal activities there.


Microsoft is head and shoulders above Sony AND Nintendo. While you can argue that Sony has more revenue, Nintendo has more profits, Sony may be undervalued, Nintendo overvalued.. yadda, yadda. Microsoft beats both Sony and Nintendo in almost every concievable category: Market Cap, Profits, Revenue, and way, way more Financial Reserves.

I think one could reasonably argue that Sony is still a bigger and more important than Nintendo is, on the whole. But there is no question that Microsoft is bigger than both of them. Even with possible qualms about Vista, that's not changing.

Microsoft might be bigger money wise but if you check their stock value thats a whole different story.

 

how long till  google passes Microsoft? I know Google stock is like $150 a share. Microsoft when I checked 2 weeks ago was like $25



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ssj12 said:
 
Microsoft might be bigger money wise but if you check their stock value thats a whole different story.

 

how long till google passes Microsoft? I know Google stock is like $150 a share. Microsoft when I checked 2 weeks ago was like $25


man, you really are clueless. okay, here goes...

stock price per share is essentially meaningless. it's market capitalization--price MULTIPLIED by number of shares.

google market cap ~ $160 bln. microsoft ~$290 bln.

by your reasoning, berkshire hathaway, with a stock price of $100,000, would be worth 4,000 times more than microsoft.

EDIT: i checked, berkshire hathaway market cap around $165bln.  hmm, around google market cap.  never thought of them that way...



the Wii is an epidemic.

Lingyis said:
yeah, for a while i wondered if nintendo is the most profitable company per employee in the world?

then i realized that if goldman sachs pays out an average of 440k bonus per employee last year, the successful hedge funds (on the order of 50 to 100 people) do even better, per employee.

but aside from financial companies nintendo's gotta be right up there.

Financial companies are completely different beasts - they are money-sucking MONSTERS!

Funny that you mention this, because I'm not sure if you are aware of another financial company called Sony Financial Holdings?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_Financial_Holdings

Wonder how profitable they are compared to the Goldman Sachs of the world...

 



Lingyis said:
ssj12 said:
 
Microsoft might be bigger money wise but if you check their stock value thats a whole different story.

 

how long till google passes Microsoft? I know Google stock is like $150 a share. Microsoft when I checked 2 weeks ago was like $25


man, you really are clueless. okay, here goes...

stock price per share is essentially meaningless. it's market capitalization--price MULTIPLIED by number of shares.

google market cap ~ $160 bln. microsoft ~$290 bln.

by your reasoning, berkshire hathaway, with a stock price of $100,000, would be worth 4,000 times more than microsoft.

EDIT: i checked, berkshire hathaway market cap around $165bln. hmm, around google market cap. never thought of them that way...


Your math is absolutely correct, and SSJ should read it (SSJ, this is how market capitalization and overall worth are calculated). But come on, not everyone knows this stuff Lingyis, adn there's no reason to call him clueless. I bet there are a lot of things SSJ knows that you don't, a lot of things you know that I don't, and every other possible combination: SSJ is a very solid poster and I don't think making fun of him is appropriate for such a trifling lack of knowledge. Please.



http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a324/Arkives/Disccopy.jpg%5B/IMG%5D">http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a324/Arkives/Disccopy.jpg%5B/IMG%5D">

Bodhesatva said:
 

Your math is absolutely correct, and SSJ should read it (SSJ, this is how market capitalization and overall worth are calculated). But come on, not everyone knows this stuff Lingyis, adn there's no reason to call him clueless. I bet there are a lot of things SSJ knows that you don't, a lot of things you know that I don't, and every other possible combination: SSJ is a very solid poster and I don't think making fun of him is appropriate for such a trifling lack of knowledge. Please.


you're right, i was kind of harsh. i kind of regretted my wording after posting it.   i apologize to ssj12.



the Wii is an epidemic.

your mother said:
Lingyis said:
yeah, for a while i wondered if nintendo is the most profitable company per employee in the world?

then i realized that if goldman sachs pays out an average of 440k bonus per employee last year, the successful hedge funds (on the order of 50 to 100 people) do even better, per employee.

but aside from financial companies nintendo's gotta be right up there.

Financial companies are completely different beasts - they are money-sucking MONSTERS!

Funny that you mention this, because I'm not sure if you are aware of another financial company called Sony Financial Holdings?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_Financial_Holdings

Wonder how profitable they are compared to the Goldman Sachs of the world...

 


 i dunno, but i read somewhere sony is is IPO'ing their finance arm, i.e. the above.

 i have no idea how much they're worth... but with all those japanese companies stockpiling on real estate in the 80's and 90's... i just don't have a clue.



the Wii is an epidemic.