I'm not making an assumption.

I work in a director position in a software company so I know what I am talking about.

There's 2 big cost in software developement :

1- Cost of developping ( basically man hours of every developer/tester involved time their hourly rate).

2- Cost of sales. ( marketing, comissions, ...).

Fixed costs, hardware costs are very small compared to those others 2 ( the exception would be a MMORPG in which case the Fixed cost become significant ( Wow probably has bigger yearly bandwith bill than most companies spent on developing any console game this gen..)).

No, why would I think that?

1. Can you name anything Nintendo that is slapped together?
2. Mario Kart Wii has, what, 16 new courses, bike mechanics, new characters, and much more.  That takes time.
3. Even though we only saw info on the game shortly before it was released that doesn't mean they started development shortly before that.
4. Even if the graphics aren't super cutting edge they still take time just like they did five years ago. 

Well, you do race cars in GTA, and MKWii is a third person game in which you shoot things, so technically that is an accurate statement. Further to Dodece's point, the idea that you can't compare two games because they are in different genres is utterly ridiculous; you can compare anything to anything. If they have no similarities, then the purpose of the comparison may seem elusive, but GTA4 and MKWii have notable similarities. The most significant being that they are both videogames. Just like apples and oranges are both fruit.

Personally, I prefer oranges because they are juicy, but it all depends on my mood.  

Well I was just asking, to get some info on someone who really works on games.

@Ail, I should clarify. usually, it would be an indicator, and I don't deny that a lot of work went into GTA IV. I was just commenting that it is possible for a developer to overspend on a game (unless it would break the laws of physics to overspend on game development). That was all I meant, although I evidently didn't make that clear.

lol so you guys are basically saying that GTAIV is like a mmorpg experience where DLC = constant supply of populace.

>.> that's just reaching now.

It's like your viewing it from the bottle neck and the bottle is additional property.

You can't add up all the totals for the past GTA's within the San Andreas period and say, this game will add up to all these other games LTD in it's LTD.

The only reason for the DLC is more than likely the lack of time and resources to pull off another GTAV within 2 years.

What has to be answered is how many people who bought liberty city didn't buy san andreas, in otherwords how many non-gta'ers did liberty city bring in, what is the accural rate trend of DLC.

If your estimating DLC's affect then you have to look at something like Maple Story... but thats PC and is an mmorpg. GTA has features online that allow it to have the same replay factor as prehaps CoD4 - I'm sure it's not the extra maps alone that draw people in to CoD4.

But on the more optimistic note, the PS3 crowd I've noticed have the same trend in want's and GTAIV does hit home with a slew of them, I'm also going to note that compared to San Andreas GTA did flop on the individual platforms in respect to first week sales as it made 4 million in it's first week sales and roughly 17 million life time, at this point the PS2's user base was already double the current HD gaming userbase, what does that mean?

It means that the game split between both consoles will outsell it's PS2 counter part but individually won't even scratch the San Andreas numbers.

By next week the numbers total for this GTAIV wont be above 2.2 million.

around 1 million in the US between both Xbox360 and PS3 I'll give it about 7 weeks before it drops below 1 million world wide. (Not calculating the japanese release) I think this GTA was just way too front loaded and wont have the same legs (short as they may be.) As San Andreas.

End of the year is probably about 13 million copies world wide.

There XD, now please stop comparing apples and oranges, their games just have fun with them.

(Will mario kart wii sell over 20 million WW: Who knows!? but for those who care, just know that MKWii is subjectively the best MK made to date, it's essentially the Brawl to Melee of Mario Karts, just like brawl it has a few things taken out that made the game fun but it's still superior to all its predecessors.)

 Ok fine, in that case the following is true:

• Super Mario Bros is actually a racing game because you race against the clock.
• GTAIV has mini games therefore it's a mini game compilations and nothing more than a casual game.
• Bioshock is an RPG since you improve your character
• KotoR II is a strategy card game since it has Pazaak
• You use your gun three times in Lost: Via Domus and it's third person so it must be a third person shooter
• Super Mario Galaxy has levels where you race against other characters-- there's another racing game.
• You beat up a car in Street Fighter II - racing game.
• There are some pretty creepy parts in Twilight Princess and you're trying to survive so it must be a survival horror.
• Half-Life 2 has the air boat level-- racing game.
• Halo 3 has jumping so it's a platformer.
• You can customize your appearance in GTAIV so it's an RPG
• The SIMS is an RPG
• SSBB is an RPG because of the stickers

I could go on with the absurd list but I think you get the point.

Mario Kart Wii is not a third person shooter because you can shoot turtle shells at people.  Just because a game has some obscure element of another genre does not make it part of that genre.  Mario Kart Wii is a racing game and nothing else.  True it is in fact different from most racing games but it's still a racing game.

With GTAIV you can in fact drive around and there are a good number of driving mission it is not a racing game.  Again, just because there's driving in it does not make it a racing game. 

So yes, comparing the two games on the whole is pretty silly.  They are completely different games and that's that.  I suppose you could compare the racing elements in GTAIV in Mario Kart Wii and that would be valid but very one sided but that's about it.  

And the idea of calling Mario Kart Wii a third person shooter is just one of the dumbest thing I've ever heard. 

dib8rman: You're being far too generous on when it'll reach 13 million.

Unless something very unusual happens, GTA is one of those games that random gamers see and will buy when they eventually pick up a console. At every price drop for either system, there will be a spike in it's sales.

But it won't stay above 1 million for this week or next. Well, software should be out soon, let's see just how wrong I can be!

Actually I'm certain unless it really is as front loaded as I'm anticipating it to be to sell 2 million this week should it's trend continue. (World Wide on both platforms)

But due to the userbase restrictions Xbox might have the larger of the sales for GTA in the mid haul - but in the long run should the PS3 continue it's growth well...

By 2009 I'd figure a 50/50 thing in total units sold between the two regardless of user base difference, as by then the user base difference won't be as drastic as it is now.

The thing that concerns me is the R* VP interview where he came out and said F*** casual games, I don't know if he was just tossing fuel in or he was being serious but either way I don't see any future R* support on the Nintendo platform in the form of a GTA nor any R* new IP.

By Q3 & 4 2009 the Nintendo platform should make it self the standard for the current mainstream games (outside of casual) and I'd like to see what happens at that point... Will people like Epic, R* and Insomniac be as err gracious?

Oh well GG, going to leave work now and go down load FFCC and LW; Really wish I could load channels from my SD card though =/.

Classic.  You definitely win.

HAHAHAHAHA, don't you love it when people post stupid threads about facts they made up?

GTA won't sell SHIT in Japan.