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Forums - Gaming Discussion - PS5 vs XSeX: Understanding the Gap

eva01beserk said:
So MS when with the pc route of just increasing perfomance, Sony added tools help game developent. So more resolution out of one and better worlds/details out of the other. Think Ill stick with sonys aproach.

Both companies heavily invested in improved tools to aid game development.

Conina said:

Stupidly fast compared to even the fastest SSDs put into a PS4, PS4 Pro, Xbox One or Xbox One X.

For example the cheap stock HDD of the PS4 peaked at ~75 MB/s in sequential read... so that was the best case scenario:

https://techgage.com/article/sonys-playstation-4-pro-system-performance-hdd-vs-ssd-testing/

SSD loading times on the current gen consoles are usually 1.5x - 2.5x as fast as stock HDD loading times, so the best case scenario would be 110 MB/s - 190 MB/s. Due to several bottlenecks (CPU, SATA...) both the HDD and SSDs were a lot slower when put into the consoles instead of connecting them to a PC.

The best case scenario for the Xbox Series X drive is at least 10x of SSDs in current gen consoles.

Keep in mind that the last-gen consoles OS/Background tasks ate a significant amount of that "read throughput". - Real-world performance would have been less than the 75.2MB/s.
The base Xbox One sat around 40-50MB/s...

Either way, these mechanical drives weren't that fast even on release, they were cheap though.
************

AMD's GPU's have had their source code leaked, which is making the rounds in enthusiast circles and tech websites now.
https://www.tomshardware.com/news/amd-big-navi-xbox-series-x-gpu-arden-source-code-stolen-100-million-ransom

What it has potentially shown us (Grains of salt until I can see the data myself personally) is that the Playstation 5 might be based on RDNA 1.0, with RDNA 2.0 improvements/features like Ray Tracing.
And we need to keep in mind that RDNA 1.0 is based on Graphics Core Next, even uses the same instruction set.

If that does indeed turn out to be accurate, then the performance gap in computational scenarios will swing in the Xbox Series X's favor even more... But it also tells us that the Playstation 5 has had potentially more engineering put into it's design to meet Sony's design goals and thus there potentially could be more aspects (Good and bad!) under the hood that we aren't privy to yet.



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

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sounds like less frameworks



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Pemalite said:
eva01beserk said:
So MS when with the pc route of just increasing perfomance, Sony added tools help game developent. So more resolution out of one and better worlds/details out of the other. Think Ill stick with sonys aproach.

Both companies heavily invested in improved tools to aid game development.

Conina said:

Stupidly fast compared to even the fastest SSDs put into a PS4, PS4 Pro, Xbox One or Xbox One X.

For example the cheap stock HDD of the PS4 peaked at ~75 MB/s in sequential read... so that was the best case scenario:

https://techgage.com/article/sonys-playstation-4-pro-system-performance-hdd-vs-ssd-testing/

SSD loading times on the current gen consoles are usually 1.5x - 2.5x as fast as stock HDD loading times, so the best case scenario would be 110 MB/s - 190 MB/s. Due to several bottlenecks (CPU, SATA...) both the HDD and SSDs were a lot slower when put into the consoles instead of connecting them to a PC.

The best case scenario for the Xbox Series X drive is at least 10x of SSDs in current gen consoles.

Keep in mind that the last-gen consoles OS/Background tasks ate a significant amount of that "read throughput". - Real-world performance would have been less than the 75.2MB/s.
The base Xbox One sat around 40-50MB/s...

Either way, these mechanical drives weren't that fast even on release, they were cheap though.
************

AMD's GPU's have had their source code leaked, which is making the rounds in enthusiast circles and tech websites now.
https://www.tomshardware.com/news/amd-big-navi-xbox-series-x-gpu-arden-source-code-stolen-100-million-ransom

What it has potentially shown us (Grains of salt until I can see the data myself personally) is that the Playstation 5 might be based on RDNA 1.0, with RDNA 2.0 improvements/features like Ray Tracing.
And we need to keep in mind that RDNA 1.0 is based on Graphics Core Next, even uses the same instruction set.

If that does indeed turn out to be accurate, then the performance gap in computational scenarios will swing in the Xbox Series X's favor even more... But it also tells us that the Playstation 5 has had potentially more engineering put into it's design to meet Sony's design goals and thus there potentially could be more aspects (Good and bad!) under the hood that we aren't privy to yet.

Doesn`t make much sense to invest the whole gen to release on a very outdated chip. But then there are rumors that PS5 was going to launch last year.

Still AMD and Sony confirmed it is RDNA 2.0 chip.

What would be very impressive is a sustainable clock on 2.23Ghz on RDNA with 10.23Tflop, manufacturing process on a node that no other RDNA1 was made right? It is to odd for me to consider at the moment. But that could make it cheaper? I don`t think so.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

DonFerrari said:

Doesn`t make much sense to invest the whole gen to release on a very outdated chip. But then there are rumors that PS5 was going to launch last year.

Still AMD and Sony confirmed it is RDNA 2.0 chip.

What would be very impressive is a sustainable clock on 2.23Ghz on RDNA with 10.23Tflop, manufacturing process on a node that no other RDNA1 was made right? It is to odd for me to consider at the moment. But that could make it cheaper? I don`t think so.

The "leak" would be rather extensive and would give us all the low-laying details on AMD's graphics processors, not something to be taken lightly... The detailing is potentially large enough that it might allow the chinese to design their own competitive products...

If accurate, it would make the Playstation 5's chip a "hybrid" design, taking design elements from RDNA 1.0 and RDNA 2.0... It does not mean it is outdated by any means.

Whatever claims Sony and AMD make on this front is ultimately irrelevant, this is low-level architectural information which AMD's engineers would be using to build products.

And let's be realistic, Console manufacturers make stupid claims all the time, part and parcel of big business promoting their products, hence they should always be taken with a grain of salt with an emphasis placed on unbiased sources.

The current manufacturing node for RDNA 1.0 is irrelevant, the PS5 wouldn't be using a bog-standard RDNA 1.0 design.



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

Pemalite said:
DonFerrari said:

Doesn`t make much sense to invest the whole gen to release on a very outdated chip. But then there are rumors that PS5 was going to launch last year.

Still AMD and Sony confirmed it is RDNA 2.0 chip.

What would be very impressive is a sustainable clock on 2.23Ghz on RDNA with 10.23Tflop, manufacturing process on a node that no other RDNA1 was made right? It is to odd for me to consider at the moment. But that could make it cheaper? I don`t think so.

The "leak" would be rather extensive and would give us all the low-laying details on AMD's graphics processors, not something to be taken lightly... The detailing is potentially large enough that it might allow the chinese to design their own competitive products...

If accurate, it would make the Playstation 5's chip a "hybrid" design, taking design elements from RDNA 1.0 and RDNA 2.0... It does not mean it is outdated by any means.

Whatever claims Sony and AMD make on this front is ultimately irrelevant, this is low-level architectural information which AMD's engineers would be using to build products.

And let's be realistic, Console manufacturers make stupid claims all the time, part and parcel of big business promoting their products, hence they should always be taken with a grain of salt with an emphasis placed on unbiased sources.

The current manufacturing node for RDNA 1.0 is irrelevant, the PS5 wouldn't be using a bog-standard RDNA 1.0 design.

The point I was making on the manufacturing node is that long term it would mean less efficiency gain on node shrink and cost reduction on scale because it would be something that is a little left behind already.

Also would potentially lose a lot of the performance and efficiency gains made on RDNA2.

Not sure Sony would have been that dumb, but who knows.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

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DonFerrari said:

The point I was making on the manufacturing node is that long term it would mean less efficiency gain on node shrink and cost reduction on scale because it would be something that is a little left behind already.

Also would potentially lose a lot of the performance and efficiency gains made on RDNA2.

Not sure Sony would have been that dumb, but who knows.

Not really, the point I am trying to convey is that Sony and AMD collaborated on a potential "Hybrid" chip to turn it into a unique and different beast, different enough that it's performance profile is different and probably has underlying enhancements that not even RDNA 2.0 has... And it brings it closer to home that comparing the PS5 and Xbox Series X on Teraflops is even more useless.

It doesn't mean that Sony made the wrong choice, far from it... We don't have all the information yet to frame everything in the proper context, just that this leak potentially proves that Sony's chip doesn't have a PC desktop-equivalent... Which is actually similar to what the Xbox 360's situation, it used the Radeon x1800 as a basis but then used enhancements from the Radeon 2900 series and made a unique beast... And was a great chip for the time.



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

Another gen means more pissing over minute differences in specx...

Love it. Also, I'm calling it Xsex from now on as well XD.



Made a bet with LipeJJ and HylianYoshi that the XB1 will reach 30 million before Wii U reaches 15 million. Loser has to get avatar picked by winner for 6 months (or if I lose, either 6 months avatar control for both Lipe and Hylian, or my patrick avatar comes back forever).

Pemalite said:

Not really, the point I am trying to convey is that Sony and AMD collaborated on a potential "Hybrid" chip to turn it into a unique and different beast, different enough that it's performance profile is different and probably has underlying enhancements that not even RDNA 2.0 has... And it brings it closer to home that comparing the PS5 and Xbox Series X on Teraflops is even more useless.

It doesn't mean that Sony made the wrong choice, far from it... We don't have all the information yet to frame everything in the proper context, just that this leak potentially proves that Sony's chip doesn't have a PC desktop-equivalent... Which is actually similar to what the Xbox 360's situation, it used the Radeon x1800 as a basis but then used enhancements from the Radeon 2900 series and made a unique beast... And was a great chip for the time.

Exactly, the simple truth of the matter is that we have to wit until multipolar games are released on these next-gen consoles. Only then would we be able to gauge exactly what the performance gap/characteristics are. And more importantly, how devs are choosing to leverage or work around them.



Intrinsic said:
Jranation said:
Why is the acronym for Xbox Series X XseX? Sounds a bit rude.

Don't blame me... tell MS to name their consoles better.

X360
XB1
XB1S
XB1SSAD
XB1X
XSX
XSS?(lockhart)

And the shocking thing is that they all have really cool project names. I wonder what they would call the eventual mid gen refresh. Xbox series X two? Xbox Series XX? Xbox series Xb? Xbox Series X 2024? Gotta wonder who picks these names. 

Erm, you do know that MS don't call it XseX.. that's what randoms on the internet call it.

I call it the XSX as it makes a lot more sense and is shorter so win win.

Maybe you need to call the consoles better.

As for there mid gen refresh console, id be calling it XSX2, XSX3, XSX4 etc. Same goes for XSS, XSS2, XSS3 etc.



Pemalite said:
DonFerrari said:

The point I was making on the manufacturing node is that long term it would mean less efficiency gain on node shrink and cost reduction on scale because it would be something that is a little left behind already.

Also would potentially lose a lot of the performance and efficiency gains made on RDNA2.

Not sure Sony would have been that dumb, but who knows.

Not really, the point I am trying to convey is that Sony and AMD collaborated on a potential "Hybrid" chip to turn it into a unique and different beast, different enough that it's performance profile is different and probably has underlying enhancements that not even RDNA 2.0 has... And it brings it closer to home that comparing the PS5 and Xbox Series X on Teraflops is even more useless.

It doesn't mean that Sony made the wrong choice, far from it... We don't have all the information yet to frame everything in the proper context, just that this leak potentially proves that Sony's chip doesn't have a PC desktop-equivalent... Which is actually similar to what the Xbox 360's situation, it used the Radeon x1800 as a basis but then used enhancements from the Radeon 2900 series and made a unique beast... And was a great chip for the time.

Understood, hope that ends up being the better choice for them on both performance and cost.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."