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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - The cuts for the Sw/Sh dex were worse than even the most pessimistic predictions

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Vodacixi said:
But don't you even dare to defend this from people who dislike all of these things. 

I have no issues with people not liking Pokemon S/S, personally I think the game looks amazing.  The point is those who aren't interested in Pokemon S/S should move along and stop derailing every Pokemon S/S discussion.  We get it, move along.  See Death Stranding thread, specifically Don's post for additional details.



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Chrkeller said:
Vodacixi said:
But don't you even dare to defend this from people who dislike all of these things. 

I have no issues with people not liking Pokemon S/S, personally I think the game looks amazing.  The point is those who aren't interested in Pokemon S/S should move along and stop derailing every Pokemon S/S discussion.  We get it, move along.  See Death Stranding thread, specifically Don's post for additional details.

They won't get this. They think doing the same thing in every thread fosters good discussion  it's the same complainers like move tf on already.



RingoGaSuki said:
Jpcc86 said:

Its not bad at all really, its plenty for a single player exprience - And I do agree it looks VERY dated, but speaking only from my personal experience with the game, I enjoy the competitive multiplayer the most. Previous games have showed me that I really dont care much about the characters and story (specially in sun/moon) but I still enjoy the competitive game, and having the roster reduced to 400 tells me many stablished "usable" mons will be left out. And yeah, thats a bit of a bummer.

I read some time ago that they might add them with patches and updates, so Im gonna wait to see if theres any update on that. 

They deconfirmed that a while back, there will be no post-launch updates.

Can you give me a source on that? i've been trying to google it but cant find anything related to the topic. 
The only thing some online sites have said is that its "confirmed" that there wont be a third entry in this gen, but I guess we kinda already expected that.

Sorry for derailing the thread, I will complain about something later on to keep it on track. :(



mZuzek said:
Baddman said:

They won't get this. They think doing the same thing in every thread fosters good discussion  it's the same complainers like move tf on already.

I mean... this thread was made by one such person, and yet you're coming here to tell them they shouldn't be wasting your time? If anything, you should move on. Don't come into a thread to complain about complaints that are perfectly valid.

I don't think you get what Pokémon means to many people. It's something they grew up all their life with, a magic series filled with great games and ideas, and more importantly, friendships. To those people, Sword/Shield is a slap in the face. It takes away everything Pokémon was meant to be, and they're in their right to complain about it. It sucks to see something you have strong feelings for take such a bad turn.

I know what your next answer is. You'll say people should just move on because "it's just a game", that it's silly to feel so strongly about it. If so, I don't think there's any reason your insensitive point should hold any value. The most important thing in a constructive discussion is for each side to understand each other's thoughts and feelings. Here, it kinda feels like one side is not willing to understand at all... probably because they know who's right, so they'd rather not think too hard about it. Ignorance is bliss, after all.

I understand it, but don't need to hear it over and over and over and over and over again.  Month after month after month.  Death Stranding isn't my type of genre, am I suppose to make sure to post in every single Death thread and repeat myself 30x a day??  Star Wars is a perfect example.  We can't have a decent SW thread because the same few people make sure to voice their opinions over and over, as if people didn't hear them the first 100 times.    

And lord knows how many times I've pointed out the obvious, but there isn't a "right" or wrong..  it is all subjective.  Why in God's name people view subjective views as being factual or incorrect is literally baffling.  People who aren't happy with Pokemon are neither right nor wrong.  People who are happy with what they see are neither right or wrong.  Personal preference, different strokes, etc.  The ultimate question hasn't changed.  Why do haters across the board continue repeating their opinions to the blatant annoyance of others?    

Last edited by Chrkeller - on 07 November 2019

mZuzek said:
Baddman said:

They won't get this. They think doing the same thing in every thread fosters good discussion  it's the same complainers like move tf on already.

I mean... this thread was made by one such person, and yet you're coming here to tell them they shouldn't be wasting your time? If anything, you should move on. Don't come into a thread to complain about complaints that are perfectly valid.

I don't think you get what Pokémon means to many people. It's something they grew up all their life with, a magic series filled with great games and ideas, and more importantly, friendships. To those people, Sword/Shield is a slap in the face. It takes away everything Pokémon was meant to be, and they're in their right to complain about it. It sucks to see something you have strong feelings for take such a bad turn.

I know what your next answer is. You'll say people should just move on because "it's just a game", that it's silly to feel so strongly about it. If so, I don't think there's any reason your insensitive point should hold any value. The most important thing in a constructive discussion is for each side to understand each other's thoughts and feelings. Here, it kinda feels like one side is not willing to understand at all... probably because they know who's right, so they'd rather not think too hard about it. Ignorance is bliss, after all.

We get it you and others have made it a point to do this and repeat the same tired arguments in every topic about this game. 



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Baddman said:
mZuzek said:

I mean... this thread was made by one such person, and yet you're coming here to tell them they shouldn't be wasting your time? If anything, you should move on. Don't come into a thread to complain about complaints that are perfectly valid.

I don't think you get what Pokémon means to many people. It's something they grew up all their life with, a magic series filled with great games and ideas, and more importantly, friendships. To those people, Sword/Shield is a slap in the face. It takes away everything Pokémon was meant to be, and they're in their right to complain about it. It sucks to see something you have strong feelings for take such a bad turn.

I know what your next answer is. You'll say people should just move on because "it's just a game", that it's silly to feel so strongly about it. If so, I don't think there's any reason your insensitive point should hold any value. The most important thing in a constructive discussion is for each side to understand each other's thoughts and feelings. Here, it kinda feels like one side is not willing to understand at all... probably because they know who's right, so they'd rather not think too hard about it. Ignorance is bliss, after all.

We get it you and others have made it a point to do this and repeat the same tired arguments in every topic about this game. 

This.  And I won't say anymore on the subject.  I'll just take my Pokemon discussions to Discord, because it isn't worth the effort here at VG.  And some wonder why participation at VG continues to decline.  



Chrkeller said:
Baddman said:

We get it you and others have made it a point to do this and repeat the same tired arguments in every topic about this game. 

This.  And I won't say anymore on the subject.  I'll just take my Pokemon discussions to Discord, because there everybody loves what I love and nobody will dare to challenge my tastes with reasonable arguments that make me uncomfortable

Fixed that for you, buddy.



Runa216 said:
Baddman said:

pokemon topic being ruined by the same vocal complainers about gamefreak. Most likely people with zero development knowledge or experience.

Coming into every pokemon or gamefreak topic and calling them lazy (how is this not considered trolling)

That's not what I'm doing! I'm one of those crazy people who has been saying for years that the national dex wasn't gonna last forever, and by the time it happens I could see them cutting out 75% of the total dex. I then went on to say that the dex could be added as DLC or an update later thanks to modern game dev cycles, but at the same time I know that'd just piss people off. 

Keeping all 900+ Pokemon in one game is ideal, sure, but it's not realistic. People who are complaining are getting angry that we don't live in a fantasy world. 

Don't get me wrong, if they did find a way to do it, I'd be fine with that. I'm not upset about this, though. I don't think anyone should be, and that those who are happen to be whiny, entitled brats. The Pokemon games have always been remarkably generous with us since 1999 (I think) when Gold/Silver came out, thus setting a precedent that had been followed. with Gold/Silver, we got an entirely massive postgame quest recreating much of Gen 1 plus the ability to import and play with over 250 Pokemon. this continued with gens 3 and 4, with 5 basically starting from scratch with 150 brand new 'mons (Which are to this day some of my favourite designs, Chandelure being one of them). They didn't HAVE to allow you to port forward other pokemon from the prior gen, but they did, and it was awesome. and Black/White 2 were equally awesome. 

Gens VI and VII were both lovely blends, and they didn't HAVE to let you bring forward every pokemon from prior gens, but they did. They never had to, but they did. Now, people think that it will always be like that despite the number of 'mons being over 800 now. It was impressive when we had 150 and even more impressive when that ballooned to more than 250. It's continued to be impressive until we got to where we are now, but anyone who expected the devs to continue giving us all the mons forever are being foolish and unreasonable. programming 'mons takes time and resources, and with them starting from scratch with new models and worlds, it's a pipe dream to think we'd get 900+ pokemon in this game. Assets take time and cost money, neither of which are infinite. 

I'm going in circles now, but holy hell some people think that they deserve the world. 

Tell ya what, you pay Nintendo/Gamefreak $100+ for the game (it's worth it, each of the prior games were stuffed to the brim with content enough to keep you busy for $100 worth of time), then maybe it'd be worth it or reasonable. 

Still sucks that Garchomp isn't in the new list (he was one of my goto 'mons) but it is what it is. So yeah, some people are ruining it, but some of us are being reasonable. 

I am one of the people that is dissapointed by the removal of the full dex. But at the same time, you have a point. So many games these days ask you to pay a DLC price for just a 25th or 30th character. Poke'mon comes with hundreds of characters. How many did Octopath have? Eight! How many characters are in Fire Emblem games, or Xenoblade, or Persona? 

I agree that no full dex sucks, (and is lazy) but at the same time, I think we as a community have forgotten how crazy it is to have an RPG with hundreds and hundreds of playable/usable characters. 



mZuzek said:
Cerebralbore101 said:

I am one of the people that is dissapointed by the removal of the full dex. But at the same time, you have a point. So many games these days ask you to pay a DLC price for just a 25th or 30th character. Poke'mon comes with hundreds of characters. How many did Octopath have? Eight! How many characters are in Fire Emblem games, or Xenoblade, or Persona? 

I agree that no full dex sucks, (and is lazy) but at the same time, I think we as a community have forgotten how crazy it is to have an RPG with hundreds and hundreds of playable/usable characters. 

And yet... it's perfectly feasible. The work is already done. The models are there. The animations are there. The sound effects are there. The stats and movesets are there. And, it was all there in previous games, games which were sold for $40. You're paying more for less, there's no way around it.

True. They obviously need to do better in a ton of ways. They need better animations, a full dex, better textures, and better models. They need to bring back all the stuff they introduced and then scrapped in the previous games. They need a better postgame. But IMO they are ahead of the characters to price curve these days regardless of their lazy ways. Poke'mon started off being such a fantastic value when it first launched, that even now the game is a pretty good value. Even after they got lazy and made major cuts to everything. I guess that's just a testament to how ground breaking the series was when it first launched. Sure, Atlus' SMT series had tons of recruitable characters too. But that game series was very niche, and didn't fully come out of Japan until PS2. 



Not sure if this has already been posted but it seems that the employee morale at Gamefreak is at an all time low

https://nintendosoup.com/waypoint-employee-morale-at-game-freak-is-at-an-all-time-low/