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The NFL Thread 2019, Week 3: Titans @ Jags

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Snoopy said:
sethnintendo said:

Didn't Randy Moss wise up for year or two with Patriots.  Patriots will make a child act like a grown man when they realize they have a legitimate shot at the Super Bowl.

How many Superbowl rings does Randy Moss have?

You have to be trolling at this point. By that logic, the Dolphins investing in Dan Marino was a poor use of resources because he didn't win a ring. More goes into a championship than a single player, especially when it comes to WR.



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MTZehvor said:
Snoopy said:

How many Superbowl rings does Randy Moss have?

You have to be trolling at this point. By that logic, the Dolphins investing in Dan Marino was a poor use of resources because he didn't win a ring. More goes into a championship than a single player, especially when it comes to WR.

He had Bill Bellicheck and Tom Brady. The best QB and Coach of our era and couldn't get a ring. He failed.



Snoopy said:
MTZehvor said:

You have to be trolling at this point. By that logic, the Dolphins investing in Dan Marino was a poor use of resources because he didn't win a ring. More goes into a championship than a single player, especially when it comes to WR.

He had Bill Bellicheck and Tom Brady. The best QB and Coach of our era and couldn't get a ring. He failed.

This is such an insanely bad take for so many reasons.

First, Moss was only with Brady/Belichick for two seasons before being traded to Minnesota. That's an extremely small window to win a Super Bowl. Jerry Rice didn't win a Super Bowl with Walsh/Montana until his fourth season. Emmitt Smith didn't win a ring with Johnson/Aikman until his third season. It's insane logic to call either of those players failures because they didn't win a Super Bowl within two years of working with a star combo.

Second, Moss would have won a Super Bowl in his first season with New England were it not for an extremely fluke play in the helmet catch. If Rodney Harrison punches that ball out, the Pats win. Are you really going to argue that a play that Moss wasn't even involved with somehow reflects poorly on him?

Finally, rings (like anything) are a poor be all end all measure of the quality of a player. Trent Dilfer was not a better QB than Dan Marino. Julian Edelman is not a better WR than Randy Moss. LaGarrette Blount is not a better RB than LaDanian Tomlinson. A lot more goes into winning a championship than a single player. It takes a team, and sometimes that isn't even enough. Sometimes you just get bad luck thrown your way, and you lose your SB shot as a result. It's absurd to knock Moss for the lack of a ring unless it was somehow his fault that his teams lost, and it never really was.



So I didn't bother waking up early (games started 5 a.m. my region), because for some reason our sports network didn't have NFL redzone, only Panthers vs Rams to start. Waking up to see the end and checking the other games, seems like this is ironically the only good match so far.

I was so excited to see the browns, oof. And if you told me Lamar Jackson would have the most passing TDs for the day...



Shaunodon said:
So I didn't bother waking up early (games started 5 a.m. my region), because for some reason our sports network didn't have NFL redzone, only Panthers vs Rams to start. Waking up to see the end and checking the other games, seems like this is ironically the only good match so far.

I was so excited to see the browns, oof. And if you told me Lamar Jackson would have the most passing TDs for the day...

Geeze, and I started Matt Ryan over Jackson this week. I guess the strategy is start whoever's playing the Dolphins.



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Also partially for the sake of transparency, and partially for anyone who's interested, here's the sheet where the predictions for this week/rest of the year are/will be recorded. It's going to look different than in years past because it heavily relies on just straight up importing predictions from google forms rather than copy/pasting them over, but everything should be straight forward.

One thing to note is that on the "scoring" sheet, unlike past years, the numbers don't correspond to home/away team. 0s and 1s simply mean whether you got the pick right or not, and then the sheet is set to autosum the picks at the end.

I'll put all of this in a much easier to read table at the end of the week on here, but for now, yeah, that's how it works.



MTZehvor said:
Snoopy said:

He had Bill Bellicheck and Tom Brady. The best QB and Coach of our era and couldn't get a ring. He failed.

This is such an insanely bad take for so many reasons.

First, Moss was only with Brady/Belichick for two seasons before being traded to Minnesota. That's an extremely small window to win a Super Bowl. Jerry Rice didn't win a Super Bowl with Walsh/Montana until his fourth season. Emmitt Smith didn't win a ring with Johnson/Aikman until his third season. It's insane logic to call either of those players failures because they didn't win a Super Bowl within two years of working with a star combo.

Second, Moss would have won a Super Bowl in his first season with New England were it not for an extremely fluke play in the helmet catch. If Rodney Harrison punches that ball out, the Pats win. Are you really going to argue that a play that Moss wasn't even involved with somehow reflects poorly on him?

Finally, rings (like anything) are a poor be all end all measure of the quality of a player. Trent Dilfer was not a better QB than Dan Marino. Julian Edelman is not a better WR than Randy Moss. LaGarrette Blount is not a better RB than LaDanian Tomlinson. A lot more goes into winning a championship than a single player. It takes a team, and sometimes that isn't even enough. Sometimes you just get bad luck thrown your way, and you lose your SB shot as a result. It's absurd to knock Moss for the lack of a ring unless it was somehow his fault that his teams lost, and it never really was.

1. Moss was on the "Dream team" and didn't win the super bowl. Patriots had possibly the best team on paper that year in NFL history.

2. The Patriots would've won if they scored more than 17 points. Too bad Randy moss didn't do much.

3. It's not the player's skill, but their attitude. T.O. had great stats, but he was cancer in the locker room causing the team to fall apart. 

Last edited by Snoopy - on 08 September 2019

Jesus the Giants are terrible.



Snoopy said:
MTZehvor said:

This is such an insanely bad take for so many reasons.

First, Moss was only with Brady/Belichick for two seasons before being traded to Minnesota. That's an extremely small window to win a Super Bowl. Jerry Rice didn't win a Super Bowl with Walsh/Montana until his fourth season. Emmitt Smith didn't win a ring with Johnson/Aikman until his third season. It's insane logic to call either of those players failures because they didn't win a Super Bowl within two years of working with a star combo.

Second, Moss would have won a Super Bowl in his first season with New England were it not for an extremely fluke play in the helmet catch. If Rodney Harrison punches that ball out, the Pats win. Are you really going to argue that a play that Moss wasn't even involved with somehow reflects poorly on him?

Finally, rings (like anything) are a poor be all end all measure of the quality of a player. Trent Dilfer was not a better QB than Dan Marino. Julian Edelman is not a better WR than Randy Moss. LaGarrette Blount is not a better RB than LaDanian Tomlinson. A lot more goes into winning a championship than a single player. It takes a team, and sometimes that isn't even enough. Sometimes you just get bad luck thrown your way, and you lose your SB shot as a result. It's absurd to knock Moss for the lack of a ring unless it was somehow his fault that his teams lost, and it never really was.

1. Moss was on the "Dream team" and didn't win. Patriots had possibly the best team on paper that year in NFL history.

2. The Patriots would've won if they scored more than 17 points. Too bad Randy moss didn't do much.

3. It's not the player's skill, but their attitude. T.O. had great stats, but he was cancer in the locker room causing the team to fall apart. 

#1: Rice was on the 1987 49ers, who, had they won the SB, likely would have been considered the best 49er team ever and one of the best teams of all time. Insane 206 point differential. Incredibly explosive offense that finished with 3000 yards passing and 1500 yards rushing, an amazing combination for the rules of that age. To this day, they're one of only two teams ever to finish #1 in offense and in defense in a season. They lost in the divisional round.

Shit happens in the NFL. Sometimes the "better" team doesn't win, especially in a one and done situation where you only need one bad day to have an entire season go down the drain. There's an element of randomness that makes things unpredictable, which is great as far as entertainment value goes (NBA playoffs are boring as hell imo), but also means that judging a team based on one game, let alone a player, is foolish.

#2: Having gone over that game way more than I'd ever like to, Randy Moss actually contributed quite a bit. He and Welker were one of the few bright spots of the day, combining for over 75% of New England's offense. Moss was also responsible for half of New England's points. Our offensive line got blown up all day long, Brady didn't handle pressure well, and everything else crumbled as a result. Pinning that on Moss is just silly.

#3: Moss' attitude was fine from 07-09. Plenty of interviews have attested to that fact. Issues arose in 2010, at which point he was traded, but to argue that the Patriots somehow didn't make a smart investment on Moss from 07-09 is asinine. And even if you disregard Moss purely because "no rings," there's a variety of examples of Patriots bringing in players with supposed "character issues" from other teams and winning championships with them playing a significant role (Corey Dillon, Rodney Harrison, Darelle Revis, Michael Bennett, etc.).



Keller Moore is a beast play-caller.