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Official 2020 US Election: Democratic Party Discussion

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*sigh*

Former New York City mayor Michael Bloomberg is expected to announce his candidacy for president soon.



Massimus - "Trump already has democrat support."

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Jumpin said:

Trump is toast!

He's pretty much toast. The only thing that can go wrong is if the Bernie or Bust cult of personality types ramp up their propaganda campaign against the left again.

You've got it backwards. Bernie or bust IS the true left wing of today. It's not the left they rally against but the (mostly Authoritarian Neolib) center. This is why some don't live and die by the Dems, as their Neolib centrist policies/ideals aren't much further than the Repubs to them anyway.

Additionally, the vast majority of polls had Hillary way way up for the vast majority of the election period in '16. They also tend to be draw from a very small pool in very select areas - only 876 in this case apparently :/. Not quite an indication of like 180 million potential voters. The fact that they even have Buttigieg and Harris over Trump should be a gigantic red flag right there..

So yeaah I'd probably take those with a grain of salt. 

Barring a major economic meltdown or something (which actually did somewhat happen with Obama but he STILL won 2012) the incumbent typically has a huge advantage to win another term when it comes to the American presidency. Might be harsh but it is the truth. Hell even freaking BUSH Jr. got a second term for some reason..

I think at least right now Bernie has the best chance as there's a lot of enthusiasm behind him and he's got a shot to win some independents. He also has AOC's support who's a major young Dem star and insanely popular among many younger voters. Biden maybe a slight chance as he's precieved as the "safe" choice and he'll win over the older, boomer Dems and moderates (of which there are many and many of them are the voters) but I also think he's dull and uninspiring for many and will have a hard time winning independents, especially with his baggage. 

Last edited by DarthMetalliCube - on 08 November 2019

SpokenTruth said:

*sigh*

Former New York City mayor Michael Bloomberg is expected to announce his candidacy for president soon.

Oh please, join. I want to see him enter, crash and burn. This would be very entertaining.



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Bloomberg can suck a dick.

Let's see, what else happened while I was out...Beto's out huh? Not surprising, but I still don't get what the fuck Klobochar is doing there. Like what is even the point of her? I mean you could say that for a lot of candidates, but those candidates are polling under 2% so whatever. I still think she should drop out before Iowa, as should everyone except Sanders, Warren, and Biden. Buttigieg and Yang can hang around until December to see if anything interesting happens but then they should go too if they're not polling consistent double digits.

In other news, everyone is enemies with everyone else now, we can't be friends anymore unless we support the same candidates, understand? Let's all just keep being bitter towards each other, okay? No respect for people who disagree with you allowed, got it? Good, glad we can at least agree on that. Only Bernie and Liz can be friends, everyone else has to hate each other.



HylianSwordsman said:
In other news, everyone is enemies with everyone else now, we can't be friends anymore unless we support the same candidates, understand? Let's all just keep being bitter towards each other, okay? No respect for people who disagree with you allowed, got it? Good, glad we can at least agree on that. Only Bernie and Liz can be friends, everyone else has to hate each other.

LOL. I will go on record and say: While I prefer some candidates over others, this field overall is so much better than 2016 - I mean Hillary Clinton. Maybe some candidates I know not much about like Bennet or Sestak are as bad, but let alone that such a diverse field exists that people can pick from is a big, big win.



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HylianSwordsman said:
Bloomberg can suck a dick.

Let's see, what else happened while I was out...Beto's out huh? Not surprising, but I still don't get what the fuck Klobochar is doing there. Like what is even the point of her? I mean you could say that for a lot of candidates, but those candidates are polling under 2% so whatever. I still think she should drop out before Iowa, as should everyone except Sanders, Warren, and Biden. Buttigieg and Yang can hang around until December to see if anything interesting happens but then they should go too if they're not polling consistent double digits.

In other news, everyone is enemies with everyone else now, we can't be friends anymore unless we support the same candidates, understand? Let's all just keep being bitter towards each other, okay? No respect for people who disagree with you allowed, got it? Good, glad we can at least agree on that. Only Bernie and Liz can be friends, everyone else has to hate each other.

That sort of goes with the territory considering there were at one point like 20 candidates and even now there are around a dozen. It's probably a healthy thing that each one is at least somewhat unique and offers their own perspective. The flipside is that hardcore supporters of each will go at eachother on their differences. The political compass isn't merely a left-right divide but 4 major quadrants, and even within these 4 quadrants, there will be differences and different dimensions. It's not a binary paradigm by any means; it's a vastly complex web of ideals and everyone is largely unique in their perspectives. But yeah I do wish people would start being a bit more accepting. 

That said, when you start boiling everything down I'm definitely beginning to see a divide between the more establishment Corporatist Neolib candidates like Biden, Buttigieg, Harris, Castro, Klobochar VS Bernie, Yang, Tulsi, Marriane who occupy more of the fringe, anti-establishment and are farther left for the most part. Even though they may be technically in the same party I'm sensing a vast divide in ideals/policies/philosophies in many ways. Which I definitely gravitate more towards the latter, to the point where the former are almost no better than Trump/MAGA or the establishment GOP to me. Maybe that's just my warped perspective but that's at least how I genuinely see things from where I sit. Warren I still don't know quite what to make of. She seems to have one foot in the establishment/Neolib/Centrist camp and one in the more progressive/anti-Wallstreet/farther left camp (or at least attempting to). 

Last edited by DarthMetalliCube - on 09 November 2019

Mnementh said:
Jumpin said:

He's pretty much toast. The only thing that can go wrong is if the Bernie or Bust cult of personality types ramp up their propaganda campaign against the left again.

As was shown with actual data in the thread before, Clinton supporters are way more likely to vote Republican than Sanders supporters. So we better hope Clinton isn't meddling this cycle and hands it to Trump­ - again.

What that post showed was a poll suggesting a number of people who voted Clinton over Obama in the primaries didn’t vote Democratic later. It didn’t show who these voters were or what states these voters were from. For all we know these were Conservatives registering to vote in the Democratic primaries simply to make sure a mixed-ethnicity guy didn’t get voted in. There was no “Clinton or Bust” campaign from her supporters in 2008 or 2016, but there was a massive “Bernie or Bust” campaign in 2016 where Bernie Sanders supporters actively stated that they will not vote for the  Democratic Party unless Bernie Sanders wins.  The data shows a large impact on the Democratic voting states, showing with their numbers alone, the number of Bernie Sanders voters alone were enough to make the difference to give those states to the Republicans. But the thing of key importance was the large numbers of others they would have influenced. Through 2015 and 2016 there was an obscenely large social media campaign against Hillary Clinton by Bernie Sanders fans. Some of his fan sites, I can specifically remember TYT (primarily from their resident failed comedian, Jimmy Dore) actively encouraging leftist voters not to vote for the Democratic Party in the election, saying it would be better if the Republicans won. And these sorts of sites aren’t small, back in 2016, TYT alone had millions of viewers.

Unless you can demonstrate that there is some kind of Clinton or bust campaign just waiting to occur, and that “Clinton Meddling” is somehow going to trigger it, then you’re more or less just posting an irrelevant red herring (and, quite frankly, a ridiculous one).

The possibility of a Bernie or Bust 2020 is quite real. There are already people (even in these forums) posting conspiracy theories, character assassinations, and lies about policy against Elizabeth Warren in this case. It’s bizarre, because these Sanders fan sites attack Elizabeth Warren far more than Biden, some of them even more so than they do Trump.



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Jumpin said:
Mnementh said:

As was shown with actual data in the thread before, Clinton supporters are way more likely to vote Republican than Sanders supporters. So we better hope Clinton isn't meddling this cycle and hands it to Trump­ - again.

What that post showed was a poll suggesting a number of people who voted Clinton over Obama in the primaries didn’t vote Democratic later. It didn’t show who these voters were or what states these voters were from. For all we know these were Conservatives registering to vote in the Democratic primaries simply to make sure a mixed-ethnicity guy didn’t get voted in. There was no “Clinton or Bust” campaign from her supporters in 2008 or 2016, but there was a massive “Bernie or Bust” campaign in 2016 where Bernie Sanders supporters actively stated that they will not vote for the  Democratic Party unless Bernie Sanders wins.  The data shows a large impact on the Democratic voting states, showing with their numbers alone, the number of Bernie Sanders voters alone were enough to make the difference to give those states to the Republicans. But the thing of key importance was the large numbers of others they would have influenced. Through 2015 and 2016 there was an obscenely large social media campaign against Hillary Clinton by Bernie Sanders fans. Some of his fan sites, I can specifically remember TYT (primarily from their resident failed comedian, Jimmy Dore) actively encouraging leftist voters not to vote for the Democratic Party in the election, saying it would be better if the Republicans won. And these sorts of sites aren’t small, back in 2016, TYT alone had millions of viewers.

Unless you can demonstrate that there is some kind of Clinton or bust campaign just waiting to occur, and that “Clinton Meddling” is somehow going to trigger it, then you’re more or less just posting an irrelevant red herring (and, quite frankly, a ridiculous one).

The possibility of a Bernie or Bust 2020 is quite real. There are already people (even in these forums) posting conspiracy theories, character assassinations, and lies about policy against Elizabeth Warren in this case. It’s bizarre, because these Sanders fan sites attack Elizabeth Warren far more than Biden, some of them even more so than they do Trump.

You are quick to make excuses for the data showing Clinton fans as tending more to republican, but you are inventing stuff against Sanders. Naturally you has no data for all this. So I just say you are wrong and with the same authority as you claim, that Clinton got 2016 more votes through Bernie supporters as she had gotten if she would've been alone in the primaries. The reason is, that Sanders activated voters that were passive before and usually stayed at home, but now were energized for the Democrats through Sanders campaign. These people by far have outweight the Bernie or Bust people.

If you don't believe that, than show me data that your point of view is more likely than mine.



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Besides him trying to force New Yorkers to eat healthy Bloomberg wasn't that bad of a mayor.



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