Quantcast
NATO, US, Canada, Australia & 25 European countries expel a total of 152 Russian envoys over Russian former spy poisoning

Forums - Politics Discussion - NATO, US, Canada, Australia & 25 European countries expel a total of 152 Russian envoys over Russian former spy poisoning

ArnoldRimmer said:
SpokenTruth said:
I highly doubt these countries are taking such action without some validation.

Perfect proof of what I just said: You're admitting that you haven't seen any actual proof whatsoever, you're just confident that the fact that some countries are taking action must mean that there must be truth to the accusations. You're probably not even wondering why it's basically only US allied countries on that list, maybe haven't even heard that it's very typical for the US to apply pressure to allied countries to join in on such actions, and I assume you're not even wondering why most countries on that list are only expelling the bare minimum, 1 or 2 diplomats, which indicates that they were reluctant to do so.

If you're going to debase others for making assumptions, make damn certain you don't make them yourself.



Massimus - "Trump already has democrat support."

Around the Network
SpokenTruth said:
Rab said:

All without actual verifiable proof just speculation, way to start shit

It won't impress Russia that so many countries just toed the line, they will harden to this

Do you need a list of all the bad things Russia has done over the past few decades?  Shit was started long ago.

Do you need a list of all the bad things the US has done over the last few decades? Jesus get some perspective 



SpokenTruth said:
ArnoldRimmer said:

Yes, please post that list. I suggest starting in the 1940s. And of course, only mention things that are actually proven, not bullshit like the one that this thread is about.

And of course, also compile a list of all the bad things that for example the US has done in the same period. Hint: If that list isn't at least equally terrifying, you're obviously applying double standards.

I never said the US was an angel.  I'm only stating that the shit didn't start with this diplomatic recall.

Not sure if you've read any of my posts but I'm usually one of the first to criticize the US and/or call it out for hypocrisy.

EDIT: Well. that answers the question of you being familiar with my stance on the US.

Actually, I don't get why your stance on the US should even be relevant here.

But if you want to compile a list of bad things country X has done, start with your own country first. After all, that's the country for whose policies you as a citizen and voter are even personally responsible for.



SpokenTruth said:
ArnoldRimmer said:

Perfect proof of what I just said: You're admitting that you haven't seen any actual proof whatsoever, you're just confident that the fact that some countries are taking action must mean that there must be truth to the accusations. You're probably not even wondering why it's basically only US allied countries on that list, maybe haven't even heard that it's very typical for the US to apply pressure to allied countries to join in on such actions, and I assume you're not even wondering why most countries on that list are only expelling the bare minimum, 1 or 2 diplomats, which indicates that they were reluctant to do so.

If you're going to debase others for making assumptions, make damn certain you don't make them yourself.

Sorry, I'm not getting what you're referring to.

What I'm trying to say is that I find that "Well, I admit I haven't seen any proof whatsoever, but if so many countries join in and also expell diplomats, I guess there must be something to the accusations"-thinking a bit weird.

But anyway: Please, name me just one plausible explanation why russia, out of all the billions of reliable ways they could have killed the guy, they instead decided to try to kill him in the one way that instantly points towards them, and which is obviously extremely unreliable (since none of the victims died so far). I so far still haven't heard any plausible explanation for this; instead, in my eyes this very fact rather screams "false flag attack - the true target of the operation wasn't even to kill the guy, but to immediately suggest that russia was responsible".

There's also the question why russia didn't simply kill the guy years ago, when he was in imprisoned in russia for his actions. But the former question is much more pressing.

Last edited by ArnoldRimmer - on 28 March 2018

Rab said:
SpokenTruth said:

Do you need a list of all the bad things Russia has done over the past few decades?  Shit was started long ago.

Do you need a list of all the bad things the US has done over the last few decades? Jesus get some perspective 

Did you read any of my other posts?  Because I'd actually be very happy to list the bad things the US has done.  I'm very critical of the US.

If you're going to tell someone to get some perspective, make damn you have the correct perspective on them first.

ArnoldRimmer said:
SpokenTruth said:

I never said the US was an angel.  I'm only stating that the shit didn't start with this diplomatic recall.

Not sure if you've read any of my posts but I'm usually one of the first to criticize the US and/or call it out for hypocrisy.

EDIT: Well. that answers the question of you being familiar with my stance on the US.

Actually, I don't get why your stance on the US should even be relevant here.

But if you want to compile a list of bad things country X has done, start with your own country first. After all, that's the country for whose policies you as a citizen and voter are even personally responsible for.

You have moved to a completely different subject than what Rab initially stated.  I'll recap for you.  He said the US is starting shit with this diplomatic recall.  I said shit started long ago because of the bad stuff Russia has done.  They have been on notice for their activity for a while now by most of these countries.

And yes, my stance is relevant because I'm already critical of the US.  And I would gladly list everything bad the US has done it it were relevant to the conversation...which it's not.

ArnoldRimmer said:
SpokenTruth said:

If you're going to debase others for making assumptions, make damn certain you don't make them yourself.

Sorry, I'm not getting what you're referring to.

What I'm trying to say is that I find that "Well, I admit I haven't seen any proof whatsoever, but if so many countries join in and also expell diplomats, I guess there must be something to the accusations"-thinking a bit weird.

But anyway: Please, name me just one plausible explanation why russia, out of all the billions of reliable ways they could have killed the guy, they decided to try to kill him in the one way that instantly points towards them, and which is obviously extremely unreliable (since none of the victims died so far). I so far still haven't heard any plausible explanation for this; instead, in my eyes this very fact rather screams "false flag attack".

You made several assumptions yourself.  You are assuming why other nations are withdrawing diplomats.  You are assuming I question the number of diplomats being withdrawn.  You are assuming reluctance on their part to withdraw more.  I want proof of all of that.  Again, don't debase others for an assumption when you make several of your own.



Massimus - "Trump already has democrat support."

Around the Network
SpokenTruth said:
Rab said:

Do you need a list of all the bad things the US has done over the last few decades? Jesus get some perspective 

Did you read any of my other posts?  Because I'd actually be very happy to list the bad things the US has done.  I'm very critical of the US.

If you're going to tell someone to get some perspective, make damn you have the correct perspective on them first.

 

No I didn't read the other posts, it's good your open to seeing the shite from all countries

For all the crap the US has done in the past Im not aware of any mass US diplomatic expulsion from any of those countries, somehow the US dodged that bullet, yeah we all know why, there is definitely camps developing here, and the Russians see it, don't expect anything to get better, this is just stirring up shit and wont be good for anyone, prove it first, give the Russians a right of reply, the way these countries are doing it now is like a gang of school yard thugs accusing a kid with no evidence of some infraction 

Again this will only harden Russia, the hawks in each of the countries love it, particularly in Russia and the US 



poklane said:
Interesting: Moldova, a pro-Russian country (they elected a pro-Russian president back in 2016) is kicking out 3 diplomats http://www.mfa.gov.md/comunicate-presa-md/511547/

The government is purely pro-American. Nothing strange.



SpokenTruth said:
ArnoldRimmer said:

Actually, I don't get why your stance on the US should even be relevant here.

And yes, my stance is relevant because I'm already critical of the US.  And I would gladly list everything bad the US has done it it were relevant to the conversation...which it's not.

Sorry, I still don't get why your stance on the US should be of any relevance to the thread topic.

SpokenTruth said:
ArnoldRimmer said:

Sorry, I'm not getting what you're referring to.

What I'm trying to say is that I find that "Well, I admit I haven't seen any proof whatsoever, but if so many countries join in and also expell diplomats, I guess there must be something to the accusations"-thinking a bit weird.

But anyway: Please, name me just one plausible explanation why russia, out of all the billions of reliable ways they could have killed the guy, they decided to try to kill him in the one way that instantly points towards them, and which is obviously extremely unreliable (since none of the victims died so far). I so far still haven't heard any plausible explanation for this; instead, in my eyes this very fact rather screams "false flag attack".

You made several assumptions yourself.  You are assuming why other nations are withdrawing diplomats.  You are assuming I question the number of diplomats being withdrawn.  You are assuming reluctance on their part to withdraw more.  I want proof of all of that.  Again, don't debase others for an assumption when you make several of your own.

What's the problem with assumptions? I don't consider making assumptions alone to be a problem. Yes, I do assume that the major reason behind these countries acting like this is because they feel pressured to join in on the "expelling diplomats" train - the odd fact that pretty much all these countries are US allies strongly suggests so etc.

And yet, even though there is very strong indication that this assumption is true, I'm not demanding to expel diplomats from these countries without any actual further proof, am I? You on the other hand are instantly welcoming the expelling of over 150 diplomats ("It's a start.") without having seen or even demanding any actual proof, and your sole rationale seems to be "Well, why else would these countries act like this if these accusations wouldn't be true?" Well, in my previous posting I simply named an alternative plausible explanation...

Anyway, you completely ignored the question in my previous posting, so I'm asking it again. Please respond to it, otherwise I will assume that you probably do not want to answer because you do not have a good answer:

Please, name me just one plausible explanation why russia, out of all the billions of reliable ways they could have killed the guy, they decided to try to kill him in the one way that instantly points towards them, and which is obviously extremely unreliable (since none of the victims died so far).



Rab said:
SpokenTruth said:

Did you read any of my other posts?  Because I'd actually be very happy to list the bad things the US has done.  I'm very critical of the US.

If you're going to tell someone to get some perspective, make damn you have the correct perspective on them first.

 

No I didn't read the other posts, it's good your open to seeing the shite from all countries

For all the crap the US has done in the past Im not aware of any mass US diplomatic expulsion from any of those countries, somehow the US dodged that bullet, yeah we all know why, there is definitely camps developing here, and the Russians see it, don't expect anything to get better, this is just stirring up shit and wont be good for anyone, prove it first, give the Russians a right of reply, the way these countries are doing it now is like a gang of school yard thugs accusing a kid with no evidence of some infraction 

Again this will only harden Russia, the hawks in each of the countries love it, particularly in Russia and the US 

Russia themselves booted out 755 US diplomats last year.
https://www.theatlantic.com/news/archive/2017/07/russia-expels-755-us-diplomats/535374/

That's a far larger overall number than what is happening now against Russia (127 total). 

We have had some of our own expelled from India (2014), Venezuela (2013 and 2014), Bahrain (2014), Ecuador (2014), Bolivia (2008)...I didn't look any further back.  But I did find a lot of back and forth or tit-for-tat expulsions between Russia and a lot of countries since 2000.  Basically, this is not uncommon except that it's a lot of counties at once.  Do a Google search with a time setting of 2000 - 2017 and it just goes on and on and on.

ArnoldRimmer said:

Please respond to it, otherwise I will assume that you probably do not want to answer because you do not have a good answer:

Please, name me just one plausible explanation why russia, out of all the billions of reliable ways they could have killed the guy, they decided to try to kill him in the one way that instantly points towards them, and which is obviously extremely unreliable (since none of the victims died so far).

Just 1?  Because this isn't the first time they've done it. 
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-19647226



Massimus - "Trump already has democrat support."

Rab said:

No I didn't read the other posts, it's good your open to seeing the shite from all countries

there is definitely camps developing here, and the Russians see it, don't expect anything to get better, this is just stirring up shit and wont be good for anyone, prove it first, give the Russians a right of reply, the way these countries are doing it now is like a gang of school yard thugs accusing a kid with no evidence of some infraction 

Again this will only harden Russia, the hawks in each of the countries love it, particularly in Russia and the US 

Exactly. I do not understand how anyone can seriously welcome these actions, how anyone can believe that it's something positive to expell diplomats.

The so-called "doomsday clock" is already at two minutes to midnight (=doomsday), it has never even been closer than that - even during the Cuba crisis it was several minutes further from midnight.

And yet, despite obvious doubts people should have about russia being behind this, people are seriously welcoming steps that are sure to only significantly increase the tensions between Russia and the US and push us all closer to WW3, without even demanding any actual proof whatsoever?

I don't get it. Are these people so damn sure they won't seriously be affected by WW3? Right at a time when for example the US wants to build new nuclear weapons, Europe wants to massively increase its military budget etc.?