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Forums - Politics Discussion - Israel-Palestine: Which "solution" do you prefer?

poklane said:
The only solution is a 2-state solution in which Israel completely abandons the West Bank, including West Jerusalem.

Or maybe a better solution is that Israel takes over the entire west bank (peacefully if such a thing is even possible with palestinians), the west bank which historically was Jewish land and the palestinians leave. When you see how small Israel is even with the west bank and how huge Arab lands around Israel are (Jordan, Lebanon, Egypt, Syria, Iraq etc...), finding a new location shouldn't be too hard.

Jerusalem of course becomes the one and only capital of Israel as, by the way it has always been in the past.

h2ohno said:
Israelis ostracize those who murder innocents.  The Palestinians idolize them.

That is in essence a clear description of both sides, at the end of the day, when you peel all the layers of politics, society, religion and everything else. Beyond any opinion or philosophy this line sums it all up strikingly well.

Last edited by CrazyGamer2017 - on 11 December 2017

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CrazyGamer2017 said:
poklane said:
The only solution is a 2-state solution in which Israel completely abandons the West Bank, including West Jerusalem.

Or maybe a better solution is that Israel takes over the entire west bank (peacefully if such a thing is even possible with palestinians), the west bank which historically was their land and the palestinians leave. When you see how small Israel is even with the west bank and how huge Arab lands around Israel are (Jordan, Lebanon, Egypt, Syria, Iraq etc...), finding a new location shouldn't be too hard.

Jerusalem of course becomes the one and only capital of Israel as, by the way it has always been in the past.

It doesn't matter "how huge" the Arab lands are, ethnically cleansing the region and forcing mass relocation is never a good idea. Of course though, if the Palestinians fought to ensure that they could stay where they lived and not get forced out they'd somehow be seen as the bad guys.



VGPolyglot said:
CrazyGamer2017 said:

Or maybe a better solution is that Israel takes over the entire west bank (peacefully if such a thing is even possible with palestinians), the west bank which historically was their land and the palestinians leave. When you see how small Israel is even with the west bank and how huge Arab lands around Israel are (Jordan, Lebanon, Egypt, Syria, Iraq etc...), finding a new location shouldn't be too hard.

Jerusalem of course becomes the one and only capital of Israel as, by the way it has always been in the past.

It doesn't matter "how huge" the Arab lands are, ethnically cleansing the region and forcing mass relocation is never a good idea. Of course though, if the Palestinians fought to ensure that they could stay where they lived and not get forced out they'd somehow be seen as the bad guys.

I see but this guy to whom I replied that wants Jews to abandon their capital, that does not bother you?

Is today some kind of double standards celebration day that I don't know of? Cause the theme seems to be pretty popular today.

Oh and by the way, ethnic cleansing implies murdering everyone within an ethnic group. Where in my comment did I suggest that?

The only ones who have said they want to ethnically cleanse a society are the muslims who wish to see Israel wiped off the map.



StarOcean said:
Aeolus451 said:

You know that nazis killed alot of jews because they were jews, right? Yeah, that sounds just like Israel. Does Israel have a terrorist group dedicated to wiping a people off the planet. Why do alot of left leaning people always call people "nazis" or "neo-nazis" when they're nothing close to it?  

Why do you keep asking me what left leaners think? I don't know. I'm not a left leaner. Ask anyone who listens to me on Discord. I hold very few left leaning values -I arguably hold more right leaning values. And the Jews kill a lot of Palestinians because they are Palestinians. Do you think the UN should have given up land that was not theres? No. They shouldn't. If they wanted to actually do right they'd give up land in the US, UK, EU. But they didn't. Because they didn't care about the Jews either. Giving them Israel was self-promotion. It made them look good on the surface while they created issues that future generations would have to face later, like now. And now these "Jews" are treating the Palestinians like shit for no reason

Well, because you are left leaning because of your positions on politics. It's not a knock or anything. Do I think the UN should give out land after a war? Japan took alot of land before and during that war. The UN gave most of it back. The UN gave jews Israel because of WW2 and because Jerusalem was theirs for a long time. It's good enough for me. I know that Israelis will let anyone into the holy sites without being messed with. They're the best and most pragmatic choice considering the situation.  



Ethnically cleansing land is how many conflicts were handled in the 40s. Germans in Eastern Europe, India-Pakistan, ect. But that is not an acceptable solution today.

If a solution were to happen today, the only one that work is for Jordan to retake control of most of the West Bank like it did from 1949-1967, and for Egypt to do the same with Gaza. Both already have peace treaties with Israel, and both governments are strong enough to prevent a Hamas or ISIS takeover. Any other solution would only lead to a massive increase in violence and death if implemented right now.



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CrazyGamer2017 said:
VGPolyglot said:

It doesn't matter "how huge" the Arab lands are, ethnically cleansing the region and forcing mass relocation is never a good idea. Of course though, if the Palestinians fought to ensure that they could stay where they lived and not get forced out they'd somehow be seen as the bad guys.

I see but this guy to whom I replied that wants Jews to abandon their capital, that does not bother you?

Is today some kind of double standards celebration day that I don't know of? Cause the theme seems to be pretty popular today.

Oh and by the way, ethnic cleansing implies murdering everyone within an ethnic group. Where in my comment did I suggest that?

He didn't say that Jews should abandon the capital, he said that Israel should. Many want Jerusalem to be an international city. Ethnic cleansing doesn't have to involve murder, it can also mean ethnic cleansing of regions by forced relocation/deportation or through forced assimilation.



VGPolyglot said:

He didn't say that Jews should abandon the capital, he said that Israel should. Many want Jerusalem to be an international city. Ethnic cleansing doesn't have to involve murder, it can also mean ethnic cleansing of regions by forced relocation/deportation or through forced assimilation.

Well Jerusalem can be an international city but still be the capital of Israel. It is their capital and there is no reason for that to change.

But out of curiosity what are you saying? I mean if Israel abandons Jerusalem, who is going to rule the city then in your opinion?



Israel would never abandon Jerusalem. That would be abandoning 2000 years worth of hopes, prayers, and dreams. It's like asking Saudi Arabia to abandon Mecca or Arthur to abandon Camelot. The country would not survive without its heart. Israelis also remember how Jews were ethnically cleansed from every inch of territory Jordan captured in 1948, how Jews were banned from visiting any of their holy sites for 19 years, how synagogues and pretty much the entire Jewish Quarter were destroyed, and how tombstones were ripped from the ancient Mount of Olives cemetery and used as pavement. They're not going to chance giving control over their holy sites to anyone else after that.



h2ohno said:
Israel would never abandon Jerusalem. That would be abandoning 2000 years worth of hopes, prayers, and dreams. It's like asking Saudi Arabia to abandon Mecca or Arthur to abandon Camelot. The country would not survive without its heart. Israelis also remember how Jews were ethnically cleansed from every inch of territory Jordan captured in 1948, how Jews were banned from visiting any of their holy sites for 19 years, how synagogues and pretty much the entire Jewish Quarter were destroyed, and how tombstones were ripped from the ancient Mount of Olives cemetery and used as pavement. They're not going to chance giving control over their holy sites to anyone else after that.

Absolutely, I couldn't agree more. I was only asking in theory, just to see what the person suggesting it would say about who then would rule Jerusalem.

But it was only out of curiosity. Jerusalem is and will remain the capital of Israel. That cannot and will not change. If the muslims took over Jerusalem it could very well be the end of every Jewish holy site in the capital and Christians wouldn't be safe either. We all remember what the talibans did to the Buddhas of Bamiyan and what the islamic state did in the city of Palmyra. Destroying ancient statues and art that is non muslim. I don't understand how anyone can defend those people but yeah, I guess it is the world we live in.

Last edited by CrazyGamer2017 - on 11 December 2017

Ka-pi96 said:
Aeolus451 said:

Well, because you are left leaning because of your positions on politics. It's not a knock or anything. Do I think the UN should give out land after a war? Japan took alot of land before and during that war. The UN gave most of it back. The UN gave jews Israel because of WW2 and because Jerusalem was theirs for a long time. It's good enough for me. I know that Israelis will let anyone into the holy sites without being messed with. They're the best and most pragmatic choice considering the situation.  

Giving land back to the original owners after it was invaded is completely different to what they did with israel. Jerusalem wasn't theirs for a long time, it had been Arab for over a thousand years, now that's a long time!

Jerusalem is a very important place for 'em and they had to go somewhere.