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PSN still makes more money than the entirety of Nintendo Co., Ltd.

Forums - Sales Discussion - PSN still makes more money than the entirety of Nintendo Co., Ltd.

Cerebralbore101 said:
Lawlight said:

You're looking at the last fiscal year. Sony's net income for Q2 was 130.9 billion yen. Nintendo's net income for Q1 + Q2 is 51.5 billion yen. Sony's Q1 profit was 80.9 billion yen.

So, for the current fiscal year, Sony is at 211.8 billion yen vs. Nintendo's 51.5 billion yen.

Want to add anything else?

Source? I'd like to be able to look over the PNL sheets myself, but they are always locked behind a paywall, or just not publicly available. I mean, how the heck did Sony manage to triple it's net income year over year? It just doesn't make any sense. There's likely some hidden debt, or some other liability that isn't being accounted for. Either that or they are printing money compared to last year. 

Well, every division made more money or less losses than last year except for mobile. The operating income for semiconductors' operating income especially went up 150B yen.

You already know the source - the companies' earning releases but here:

https://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/IR/library/er.html

https://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/pdf/2017/171030e.pdf



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Slarvax said:
There are more PS+ subs than Switches out there. PSN is gonna make more revenue than Nintendo for a few more years. Even if Nintendo's sub service takes off, the difference will still be huge.

As I showed, even without the PS+  revenue, PS would still have more revenue.



Cerebralbore101 said:

The issue that I have with this thread is that the sources are not PNL/Balance sheets, so it's easy to move money around, or not take certain liabilities into account.

PSN has an income but almost no operating expenses since the other parts of Sony handle that. So it's easy to just say that PSN makes more money than the entirety of Nintendo, so long as you forget to count actual overall company expenses.

Then there's the fact that Sony doesn't just do games, and Nintendo pretty much just does games. Sony may have a higher net income, but how much of that is gaming related? Did they finally turn their non-gaming divisions around?

People are only looking at income statements, and not things like net income, assets, liabilities, operating expenses,.

Nintendo is worth somewhere around 10 billion dollars, and Sony is only worth somewhere around 22 million. Or at least that's according to last year's PNL/Balance sheets.

http://www.nasdaq.com/symbol/sne/financials?query=balance-sheet

http://financials.morningstar.com/balance-sheet/bs.html?t=NTDOY (This is in millions of JPY, but you get the picture)

But at any rate, I'm glad that both companies are healthy. I almost exclusively play on Sony and Nintendo platforms these days. Without them the most exciting games of this year wouldn't exist. 

P.S. Sony's gaming division had an operating income of around 55 billion yen according to the source provided in the OP. Nintendo had around 40 billion yen in operating income, according to OP's source. Assuming that operating income is net income, Nintendo made around 15 billion yen less than Sony's gaming division. And that's in a console launch year to boot. 

That's not how a company's worth is determined. Amazon and Netflix are highly indebted companies and we all know they're a lot.

As for your PS, you're company 1 quarter of the PS division's OI to Nintendo's 2 quarters in this FY.



Lawlight said:

 

That's not how a company's worth is determined. Amazon and Netflix are highly indebted companies and we all know they're a lot.

As for your PS, you're company 1 quarter of the PS division's OI to Nintendo's 2 quarters in this FY.

I had a financials course in college, and that is indeed how a company's worth is determined. Total Assets - Total Liabilities = Company value. 

I'll have to look over the OP's documents later. I'll edit my post to accurately reflect the real difference between the two gaming divisions. 

Edit: Yeah, I see what you mean. That widens the gap between Sony's Gaming Division and Nintendo to 33 billion yen. 

Last edited by Cerebralbore101 - on 04 November 2017

The sentence below is false. 
The sentence above is true. 

Cerebralbore101 said:
Lawlight said:

You're looking at the last fiscal year. Sony's net income for Q2 was 130.9 billion yen. Nintendo's net income for Q1 + Q2 is 51.5 billion yen. Sony's Q1 profit was 80.9 billion yen.

So, for the current fiscal year, Sony is at 211.8 billion yen vs. Nintendo's 51.5 billion yen.

Want to add anything else?

Source? I'd like to be able to look over the PNL sheets myself, but they are always locked behind a paywall, or just not publicly available. I mean, how the heck did Sony manage to triple it's net income year over year? It just doesn't make any sense. There's likely some hidden debt, or some other liability that isn't being accounted for. Either that or they are printing money compared to last year. 

Nintendo and Sony both have publicly-available statements of income available at their respective investor relations sites, which is how this information makes its way to you.

Regarding your question to me earlier, the reason I couldn't compare the net incomes of the PlayStation division and Nintendo as a whole is simple - everything else past that point is both pooled with the other divisions of the company in the case of Sony, and include things like foreign exchange gains/losses, interest on holdings, and taxes, among others in the case of both.



 
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TheWPCTraveler said:
Cerebralbore101 said:

Source? I'd like to be able to look over the PNL sheets myself, but they are always locked behind a paywall, or just not publicly available. I mean, how the heck did Sony manage to triple it's net income year over year? It just doesn't make any sense. There's likely some hidden debt, or some other liability that isn't being accounted for. Either that or they are printing money compared to last year. 

Nintendo and Sony both have publicly-available statements of income available at their respective investor relations sites, which is how this information makes its way to you.

Regarding your question to me earlier, the reason I couldn't compare the net incomes of the PlayStation division and Nintendo as a whole is simple - everything else past that point is both pooled with the other divisions of the company in the case of Sony, and include things like foreign exchange gains/losses, interest on holdings, and taxes, among others in the case of both.

Edit: Haha, the balance sheets I wanted are at the bottom of the sources you provided. It all checks out. Sony is just raking in the money this year. 

Last edited by Cerebralbore101 - on 04 November 2017

The sentence below is false. 
The sentence above is true. 

Cerebralbore101 said:
Lawlight said:

That's not how a company's worth is determined. Amazon and Netflix are highly indebted companies and we all know they're a lot.

As for your PS, you're company 1 quarter of the PS division's OI to Nintendo's 2 quarters in this FY.

I had a financials course in college, and that is indeed how a company's worth is determined. Total Assets - Total Liabilities = Company value. 

I'll have to look over the OP's documents later. I'll edit my post to accurately reflect the real difference between the two gaming divisions. 

Edit: Yeah, I see what you mean. That widens the gap between Sony's Gaming Division and Nintendo to 33 billion yen. 

There's no definitive way to see a company's worth.

What you're referring to is book value.  That is what the company would be worth assuming you wanted to buy the company and just liquidate all of its assets.  But it doesn't take into account future earnings and such.  But it doesn't take into account future potential, and a number of other things.  It's somewhat useful, but nobody would really use it to determine the actual value of a company.  Like, if someone wanted to buy Sony, there's basically a 0% chance they'd be paying exactly the book value.



JWeinCom said:
Cerebralbore101 said:

I had a financials course in college, and that is indeed how a company's worth is determined. Total Assets - Total Liabilities = Company value. 

I'll have to look over the OP's documents later. I'll edit my post to accurately reflect the real difference between the two gaming divisions. 

Edit: Yeah, I see what you mean. That widens the gap between Sony's Gaming Division and Nintendo to 33 billion yen. 

There's no definitive way to see a company's worth.

What you're referring to is book value.  That is what the company would be worth assuming you wanted to buy the company and just liquidate all of its assets.  But it doesn't take into account future earnings and such.  But it doesn't take into account future potential, and a number of other things.  It's somewhat useful, but nobody would really use it to determine the actual value of a company.  Like, if someone wanted to buy Sony, there's basically a 0% chance they'd be paying exactly the book value.

Right, it doesn't take into account the subjective and speculative side of doing bussiness. 



The sentence below is false. 
The sentence above is true. 

You just need to look at the front page to see why. The PS4 has a mature user base, while the Switch is just starting to grow.

I couldn't find profit broken out for just the network, but I did find it for the division. Revenue for the six months ending September 30 was 781,266 million yen. Profit was 72,483 million yen. So about a 9.3% profit margin.

Nintendo over the same time period was 374,041 in revenue and 39,961 in profit. So about a 10.7% profit margin. Not a big difference in margin there.

But the big money for the video game industry always happens during the holiday season, so the six months ending September 30 might be the least interesting time there is.



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Now Playing/Backlog:
Wii U - Currently Gaming Like It's 2014 (Hyrule Warriors) - 11 games in backlog
3DS - Currently Gaming Like It's 2013 (Luigi's Mansion: Dark Moon) - 7 games in backlog
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Curious to see how Sony moves from here with their network, and if Nintendos pay service has any effect on sales, both hardware and digital software.