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Forums - General Discussion - Doe it really matter if God exists or not...?

 

I am

Theist 96 20.25%
 
Atheist 178 37.55%
 
Agnostic 96 20.25%
 
Spiritual but non theist 29 6.12%
 
Other 32 6.75%
 
God. 43 9.07%
 
Total:474
MarkkyStorm said:
Qwark said:

Ever tought laws might differ wrong from right for humans on earth instead of God. Or an imaginary being if he doesn't exist. Life itself isn't pointless without a supreme being and humans should be selfconsious enough to differ right from wrong. It doesn't take a genius to see that raping and killing people is bad for society whether god agrees or not.

None of this are selfconsious. If you were raised by monkeys in the middle of the jungle, you probably wouldn't understand why you shouldn't kill everybody that treats you bad. All moral things that seem so "selfconsious" came from somewhere. Most of it from religion and philosophy.

Most (social) animals don't kill their own species though it's something that's biologically explainable and kind of counterproductive for the survival of your species. Stealing is also something that in general gets punished (not by death though) in the animal Kingdom. Try stealing a prey or mate from an alpha as animal. Most of the morals men have like do not kill your own kin are pretty much basic instincts. Now religion and philosophy did inspire some common morals but on the other hand also many to kill others though crusades, gladiators, jihad, persecution of gays. All something the church/mosque had and some countries still has a hand in.

 

Morals as accepting others, lgbt and foreigners are pretty much only the standard in countries where state and church are seperated. So that doesn't come from religion either. People seem to hate eachother and minorities even more in strict religious countries than anywhere else. Try build a church in Pakistan for example or be gay in a strict orthodox country like Russia. Basic morality isn't something that is only inspired by religion and philosophy, but also by individuals. Be it environment/climate activists, people like Martin Luther King, education and science and even major protests like the moral that man and woman are equal. Which is mainly a moral these days because woman stood up for themselves in the 19th and 20th century.

 



Please excuse my (probally) poor grammar

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But it does matter. Religious people here, now, alive are forcing views on others based on fantasy books. Racism, sexism, genocide, war, slavery... everything goes according to these madness books.

If people would realize that it is obviously not real, at least in the form that their books describe, the world would be a much more peaceful place.

Birimbau said:

If God doesn't exist, there is no wrong or right. If God exists, there is wrong (what God diskes) and right (what God approves) and there are consequences for both.

Seriously... all you religious types don't even know what empathy is.

Also, It's wrong. There are things that aren't good that God aproves. For example, beating your wife, or slavery. You gonna tell me those things are "right"?

 

I would still like to know why Atheists don't go around killing your asses if that were true.Surely we don't care what God thinks. Cause i'm sure there would be even a few willing to piss on the law or do it in secret.

The answer is simple: you are trying to give credit to "God" for something he didn't do.

God did not decide what is right and wrong. Your empathy does. Empathy is a function that increases your surivability. Makes you cooperate with others and not do to them what you wouldn't like them to do to you, increasing your survivability chances.

That is all there is to it. 

Stop trying to credit some inexistant beeing for something that is just part of evolution, just like everything else in us.

You also know that there are some people that are born without that capability. They can't feel empathy. They are usually troubled individuals (some also mass murderers). If this is on God, WHY would he make such individuals? That would be outright sadistic!



Cerebralbore101 said:
o_O.Q said:

 

"1. If God appeals to morality, then objective morality cannot exist. If Objective morality cannot exist then it does not exist. 

2. If God defines morality with his actions, then morality is not objective. If morality is not objective then Objective Morality does not exist. 

The only escape from this dilemma is to say that Objective Morality can exist without God. But that would refute your original point. Which is my point. :P"

 

well as i said afterwards i'm talking more about taking observations on which behavioral patterns are more productive and ascribing them to gods so these concepts can be communicated to the population in a digestible way 

In that case you are saying that people can't learn about objective morality without believing in a diety. That's a completely different statement from "If God does not exist, then objective morality does not exist." 

 

no that's not what i said at all... its a more complex issue than you appear to realise

thought has to also be placed into the best method for communicating these ideas



kowenicki said:
o_O.Q said:

it does because without god objective morality cannot exist

 

If you can't determine right from wrong then you lack empathy not religion.

We had empathy as a species way before we had religion.

There have been thousands of gods, I just chose to belive in one less than you.

etc

etc

 

 

 

 

 

no... that's not really true

the degree to which we feel empathy is always tempered by whether someone is a part of our preffered social grouping or not

empathy is always subjective its not at all objective

meaning that people always tend to treat some groups of people better than other groups of people and that's a fact

 

for example, 300 innocent civilians get killed in syria to supposedly kill 1 terrorist and no one bats an eye ( and this is done to supposedly help the people of syria! just like lybia just like iraq )

have one of those terrorists bomb some event in a western country killing 10 people or so and everyone loses their minds

 

beyond that how individuals define "right" and "wrong" is always in flux across people regardless 



No,it doesn't matter at all. What it does is that you mustn't try to convince us the other way. Is just a matter of choice.



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Very personal question. For some people it matters, for other it doesn´t matter. It´s just about individual approach to spirituality. Each one has its own.

The real question is..... does it matter to you if other people believe or not in God? I think this is the point where the subject really gets weird.



kowenicki said:
o_O.Q said:

it does because without god objective morality cannot exist

 

If you can't determine right from wrong then you lack empathy not religion.

We had empathy as a species way before we had religion.

There have been thousands of gods, I just chose to belive in one less than you.

etc

etc

 

Can you objectively state what is right and wrong?

Religion is as old as civilization, the oldest buildings are often supposed to be religious in nature (Stonehenge, Göbekli Tepe...)

Ethical monotheism has only one god. Polytheism or paganism did not claim moral laws and is irrelevant.



G. Washington did not believe in morality separated from religion.

https://www.crossroad.to/text/articles/WashingtonFarewell.html



I have a firm believe in the existance of God.



Nem said:

But it does matter. Religious people here, now, alive are forcing views on others based on fantasy books. Racism, sexism, genocide, war, slavery... everything goes according to these madness books.

If people would realize that it is obviously not real, at least in the form that their books describe, the world would be a much more peaceful place.

Birimbau said:

If God doesn't exist, there is no wrong or right. If God exists, there is wrong (what God diskes) and right (what God approves) and there are consequences for both.

Seriously... all you religious types don't even know what empathy is.

Also, It's wrong. There are things that aren't good that God aproves. For example, beating your wife, or slavery. You gonna tell me those things are "right"?

 

I would still like to know why Atheists don't go around killing your asses if that were true.Surely we don't care what God thinks. Cause i'm sure there would be even a few willing to piss on the law or do it in secret.

The answer is simple: you are trying to give credit to "God" for something he didn't do.

God did not decide what is right and wrong. Your empathy does. Empathy is a function that increases your surivability. Makes you cooperate with others and not do to them what you wouldn't like them to do to you, increasing your survivability chances.

That is all there is to it. 

Stop trying to credit some inexistant beeing for something that is just part of evolution, just like everything else in us.

You also know that there are some people that are born without that capability. They can't feel empathy. They are usually troubled individuals (some also mass murderers). If this is on God, WHY would he make such individuals? That would be outright sadistic!

 

and empathy is not a constant across people... so where does that leave you?