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Forums - Politics Discussion - CNN Producer: Russia Narrative "mostly bulls--t right now", is manufactured for ratings

iron_megalith said:
Final-Fan said:

"If you want something more objective, how about this:"
Please either pay more attention to what you are reading or stop willfully ignoring what I write. 

Ok. It's new because he's a member of congress right?

Alright I get you. That is indeed a more refined criteria to "prove" your point I guess.  

Disclaimer though. It's wikipedia. It's not all related to assault.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_journalists_killed_in_the_United_States

Also highly doubt this list is even substantially near to how many journalists have experienced violence or was killed. Because to actually do that, we have to do some real "research". By we it means the both of us. But I'm not going to such lengths because my claim is simple. Feel free to do so if you want to prove your point so bad.

Also this entails only to those who have died not those who have been threatened only nor was attacked/assaulted personally but survived.

But yeah. It didn't exist before right?

Here's something to humor your thought, if whistle blowers like Snowden can get threats by exposing things what makes you think media/journalists won't have those?

Here's the thing:  the incident I described illustrates that among some (not all) Trump supporters there has developed a culture that "the media" is evil and they deserve whatever they get.  They literally praised the fact that the man they were in the process of electing to Congress physically attacked a reporter for the crime of asking a question about his policy position on the new health care bill.  I'm not going to say that our country has never seen politics get this bad before.  It was extremely nasty in the mid-1800s, for example.  But I think we are in a period of time when things are getting worse in that area, and I think we need to fight against that trend. 

You're right that whistleblowers and people doing investigative journalism have always been attacked, verbally, politically, physically, etc. by the people they are exposing or accusing or by their allies.  But it's a different situation entirely when there's a cultural indifference to whether people should be allowed to exercise their right to speak freely, question government officials, etc. without being beaten up or jailed.  That's a bad path to go down for this country.  You can see around the world places where that happens. 

As a last point, you have a good argument if you say, "Because we don't have enough data on the question of whether death threats to media reporters are rising, you can't say your position is correct:  we don't know."  But that's a completely different thing from saying, "Because we don't know, my position that death threats are not rising must be accepted as the default position."  That is wrong.  [edit:  And maybe you were never trying to say that, but I just needed to put that out there.]  "We don't know" means "we don't know".  I would argue that there is circumstantial evidence that makes it a lot more likely that it's rising than that it's not rising, but I would agree that based on the information presented in this thread it's not "beyond a reasonable doubt".  I think there's been a lot more evidence here on my side, even if it's circumstantial, than you have presented for your side.  Even if we don't know, that doesn't mean all possibilities are equally likely. 

P.S.  Please remember that the question of "death threats rising?" is different from, although related to, the question of "public acceptance of repression of free speech & freedom of media inquiry rising?"



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My advice to fanboys: Brag about stuff that's true, not about stuff that's false. Predict stuff that's likely, not stuff that's unlikely. You will be happier, and we will be happier.

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Sen. Pat Moynihan
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Final-Fan said:
bigjon said:

wait. wait. wait. The approval rating being reported by the same people currently being outed as knowingly pushing fake news? Those approval ratings.

I look for more concrete things. Such as Georgia 6th District congression election. The democrats dumped a record amount into that race at a point when the fake media insued Trump was at his lowest... and guess what. Osteen lost by the exact same percentage in that distract as Hilary lost to Trump in that district.

So at the least he is where he was back on Nov 8th. You know... when he won the election.

There are plenty of polls that aren't run by news channels.  Why don't you look at them? 
http://www.gallup.com/poll/201617/gallup-daily-trump-job-approval.aspx

Oh, they don't agree with your preconceived notions?  Well I guess that company is just run by lying libtard NWO conspirators then. 

Gallup stopped doing election polls because the final results showed their numbers were shit. Great thing for them about approval numbers is there really is no way to prove whether it is right or wrong. Where as election polls have to be compared to the actual result.



End of 2009 Predictions (Set, January 1st 2009)

Wii- 72 million   3rd Year Peak, better slate of releases

360- 37 million   Should trend down slightly after 3rd year peak

PS3- 29 million  Sales should pick up next year, 3rd year peak and price cut

bigjon said:
Final-Fan said:

There are plenty of polls that aren't run by news channels.  Why don't you look at them? 
http://www.gallup.com/poll/201617/gallup-daily-trump-job-approval.aspx

Oh, they don't agree with your preconceived notions?  Well I guess that company is just run by lying libtard NWO conspirators then. 

Gallup stopped doing election polls because the final results showed their numbers were shit. Great thing for them about approval numbers is there really is no way to prove whether it is right or wrong. Where as election polls have to be compared to the actual result.

Okay, and how about all the others that show the same results? 
https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/trump-approval-ratings/  



Tag (courtesy of fkusumot): "Please feel free -- nay, I encourage you -- to offer rebuttal."
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My advice to fanboys: Brag about stuff that's true, not about stuff that's false. Predict stuff that's likely, not stuff that's unlikely. You will be happier, and we will be happier.

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Sen. Pat Moynihan
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
The old smileys: ; - ) : - ) : - ( : - P : - D : - # ( c ) ( k ) ( y ) If anyone knows the shortcut for , let me know!
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I have the most epic death scene ever in VGChartz Mafia.  Thanks WordsofWisdom! 

iron_megalith said:
Nem said:

Are you serious? Do you really think they have just as many as before the President of the United states hissed his fans on them on national television and twitter?

Good joke.

Good job moving goalposts. Quantity or frequency is irrelevant. The point is that it's been there even since so stop making it out to be some new Phenomenon.

If you wanna talk about quantitative comparison go show some solid proof since you're so sure about your claim. Give me data or back off.

Maybe moved your goal posts.

My goal post is simple: Trump is a danger to the USA and to the world and everyone should be made aware of it.

You can also give me data that it's still the same. Give me data or back off. See? I can ask you to bring information you can't have to make my point. Doesn't make you right.

It is logical it is more when the message reaches more people. So, you just don't see that cause you don't want to.

 

 

Oh btw and for the Nothing burger, it appears that it had some juice on Donal trump Jr and friends. Shocking! It was just everyone making stuff up was it not? Right.



Final-Fan said:
bigjon said:

Gallup stopped doing election polls because the final results showed their numbers were shit. Great thing for them about approval numbers is there really is no way to prove whether it is right or wrong. Where as election polls have to be compared to the actual result.

Okay, and how about all the others that show the same results? 
https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/trump-approval-ratings/  

That is the site that gave hillary a 93% chance to win right before election day. That dude has been wrong over and over and over again. Not sure why he has a job. He also have Osteen an 87% chance to win GA 6, which he lost by 5 points. He uses other polls to create his projections. I don't think he is formula is bad, but his source data is (the polls).



End of 2009 Predictions (Set, January 1st 2009)

Wii- 72 million   3rd Year Peak, better slate of releases

360- 37 million   Should trend down slightly after 3rd year peak

PS3- 29 million  Sales should pick up next year, 3rd year peak and price cut

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Final-Fan said:
iron_megalith said:

Ok. It's new because he's a member of congress right?

Alright I get you. That is indeed a more refined criteria to "prove" your point I guess.  

Disclaimer though. It's wikipedia. It's not all related to assault.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_journalists_killed_in_the_United_States

Also highly doubt this list is even substantially near to how many journalists have experienced violence or was killed. Because to actually do that, we have to do some real "research". By we it means the both of us. But I'm not going to such lengths because my claim is simple. Feel free to do so if you want to prove your point so bad.

Also this entails only to those who have died not those who have been threatened only nor was attacked/assaulted personally but survived.

But yeah. It didn't exist before right?

Here's something to humor your thought, if whistle blowers like Snowden can get threats by exposing things what makes you think media/journalists won't have those?

Here's the thing:  the incident I described illustrates that among some (not all) Trump supporters there has developed a culture that "the media" is evil and they deserve whatever they get.  They literally praised the fact that the man they were in the process of electing to Congress physically attacked a reporter for the crime of asking a question about his policy position on the new health care bill.  I'm not going to say that our country has never seen politics get this bad before.  It was extremely nasty in the mid-1800s, for example.  But I think we are in a period of time when things are getting worse in that area, and I think we need to fight against that trend.  

You're right that whistleblowers and people doing investigative journalism have always been attacked, verbally, politically, physically, etc. by the people they are exposing or accusing or by their allies.  But it's a different situation entirely when there's a cultural indifference to whether people should be allowed to exercise their right to speak freely, question government officials, etc. without being beaten up or jailed.  That's a bad path to go down for this country.  You can see around the world places where that happens.  

As a last point, you have a good argument if you say, "Because we don't have enough data on the question of whether death threats to media reporters are rising, you can't say your position is correct:  we don't know."  But that's a completely different thing from saying, "Because we don't know, my position that death threats are not rising must be accepted as the default position."  That is wrong.  [edit:  And maybe you were never trying to say that, but I just needed to put that out there.]  "We don't know" means "we don't know".  I would argue that there is circumstantial evidence that makes it a lot more likely that it's rising than that it's not rising, but I would agree that based on the information presented in this thread it's not "beyond a reasonable doubt".  I think there's been a lot more evidence here on my side, even if it's circumstantial, than you have presented for your side.  Even if we don't know, that doesn't mean all possibilities are equally likely.  

P.S.  Please remember that the question of "death threats rising?" is different from, although related to, the question of "public acceptance of repression of free speech & freedom of media inquiry rising?"

Fine. Let's assume and say Death threats are rising. Even if we don't have any data to compare.

Just so we can put an end to this seemingly non-ending conversation no goal.

Nem said:
iron_megalith said:

Good job moving goalposts. Quantity or frequency is irrelevant. The point is that it's been there even since so stop making it out to be some new Phenomenon.

If you wanna talk about quantitative comparison go show some solid proof since you're so sure about your claim. Give me data or back off.

Maybe moved your goal posts.

My goal post is simple: Trump is a danger to the USA and to the world and everyone should be made aware of it.

You can also give me data that it's still the same. Give me data or back off. See? I can ask you to bring information you can't have to make my point. Doesn't make you right.

It is logical it is more when the message reaches more people. So, you just don't see that cause you don't want to.

 

 

Oh btw and for the Nothing burger, it appears that it had some jiuce on Donal trump Jr and friends. Shocking! It was just everyone making stuff up was it not? Right.

And most people who are sane enough should be aware of this by now?

Jesus Christ. Why do you people keep thinking just because a person supports one thing about Trump's silly crusade means they're ok with every bad thing he's doing? Just stop with this nonsense already. The topic is with regards to the Mainstream Media Bullshit that's going on right now. It's less about being being informative and more about preaching to the god damn choire but with a twist that it's mostly bullshit.

I'm done with this thread as people like to inject false dichotomy, move goalposts, and push an argument with no clear data and just call it a day with substantial/annecdotal evidences.

You guys have a good day bickering.



iron_megalith said:
Final-Fan said:

Here's the thing:  the incident I described illustrates that among some (not all) Trump supporters there has developed a culture that "the media" is evil and they deserve whatever they get.  They literally praised the fact that the man they were in the process of electing to Congress physically attacked a reporter for the crime of asking a question about his policy position on the new health care bill.  I'm not going to say that our country has never seen politics get this bad before.  It was extremely nasty in the mid-1800s, for example.  But I think we are in a period of time when things are getting worse in that area, and I think we need to fight against that trend.  

You're right that whistleblowers and people doing investigative journalism have always been attacked, verbally, politically, physically, etc. by the people they are exposing or accusing or by their allies.  But it's a different situation entirely when there's a cultural indifference to whether people should be allowed to exercise their right to speak freely, question government officials, etc. without being beaten up or jailed.  That's a bad path to go down for this country.  You can see around the world places where that happens.  

As a last point, you have a good argument if you say, "Because we don't have enough data on the question of whether death threats to media reporters are rising, you can't say your position is correct:  we don't know."  But that's a completely different thing from saying, "Because we don't know, my position that death threats are not rising must be accepted as the default position."  That is wrong.  [edit:  And maybe you were never trying to say that, but I just needed to put that out there.]  "We don't know" means "we don't know".  I would argue that there is circumstantial evidence that makes it a lot more likely that it's rising than that it's not rising, but I would agree that based on the information presented in this thread it's not "beyond a reasonable doubt".  I think there's been a lot more evidence here on my side, even if it's circumstantial, than you have presented for your side.  Even if we don't know, that doesn't mean all possibilities are equally likely.  

P.S.  Please remember that the question of "death threats rising?" is different from, although related to, the question of "public acceptance of repression of free speech & freedom of media inquiry rising?"

Fine. Let's assume and say Death threats are rising. Even if we don't have any data to compare.

Just so we can put an end to this seemingly non-ending conversation no goal.

My goal is not to have you say "you're right" even if it's a lie.  My goal is twofold:  (1) to present arguments and/or evidence to persuade you that I'm right; (2) to see if you can present arguments and/or evidence that persuade me that you're right.  Ideally, we end up agreeing that we are both right (one has convinced the other and now we have the same position).  At the very least, we end with a better understanding of the other guy's position and the reasons for it—sorely lacking in politics today IMO. 

So it's pretty frustrating when I don't even know what your opinion is of things I say like "neither of our positions on death threats are a neutral default position".  And you say "well fine I'll just say you're right even though it's a lie".  I would much rather you say "This, yes, but this and this I think are wrong but I can't/won't articulate why, goodbye."

P.S.  When you said "substantial", did you mean "circumstantial"?  If you read this, I'd like to know the answer regardless of if you intend to continue the general conversation, please.  And as a separate question, if you decide to re-engage in this thread, do you agree that anecdotal evidence and circumstantial evidence are at least different things? 



Tag (courtesy of fkusumot): "Please feel free -- nay, I encourage you -- to offer rebuttal."
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My advice to fanboys: Brag about stuff that's true, not about stuff that's false. Predict stuff that's likely, not stuff that's unlikely. You will be happier, and we will be happier.

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Sen. Pat Moynihan
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
The old smileys: ; - ) : - ) : - ( : - P : - D : - # ( c ) ( k ) ( y ) If anyone knows the shortcut for , let me know!
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
I have the most epic death scene ever in VGChartz Mafia.  Thanks WordsofWisdom! 

iron_megalith said:
Final-Fan said:

Here's the thing:  the incident I described illustrates that among some (not all) Trump supporters there has developed a culture that "the media" is evil and they deserve whatever they get.  They literally praised the fact that the man they were in the process of electing to Congress physically attacked a reporter for the crime of asking a question about his policy position on the new health care bill.  I'm not going to say that our country has never seen politics get this bad before.  It was extremely nasty in the mid-1800s, for example.  But I think we are in a period of time when things are getting worse in that area, and I think we need to fight against that trend.  

You're right that whistleblowers and people doing investigative journalism have always been attacked, verbally, politically, physically, etc. by the people they are exposing or accusing or by their allies.  But it's a different situation entirely when there's a cultural indifference to whether people should be allowed to exercise their right to speak freely, question government officials, etc. without being beaten up or jailed.  That's a bad path to go down for this country.  You can see around the world places where that happens.  

As a last point, you have a good argument if you say, "Because we don't have enough data on the question of whether death threats to media reporters are rising, you can't say your position is correct:  we don't know."  But that's a completely different thing from saying, "Because we don't know, my position that death threats are not rising must be accepted as the default position."  That is wrong.  [edit:  And maybe you were never trying to say that, but I just needed to put that out there.]  "We don't know" means "we don't know".  I would argue that there is circumstantial evidence that makes it a lot more likely that it's rising than that it's not rising, but I would agree that based on the information presented in this thread it's not "beyond a reasonable doubt".  I think there's been a lot more evidence here on my side, even if it's circumstantial, than you have presented for your side.  Even if we don't know, that doesn't mean all possibilities are equally likely.  

P.S.  Please remember that the question of "death threats rising?" is different from, although related to, the question of "public acceptance of repression of free speech & freedom of media inquiry rising?"

Fine. Let's assume and say Death threats are rising. Even if we don't have any data to compare.

Just so we can put an end to this seemingly non-ending conversation no goal.

Nem said:

Maybe moved your goal posts.

My goal post is simple: Trump is a danger to the USA and to the world and everyone should be made aware of it.

You can also give me data that it's still the same. Give me data or back off. See? I can ask you to bring information you can't have to make my point. Doesn't make you right.

It is logical it is more when the message reaches more people. So, you just don't see that cause you don't want to.

 

 

Oh btw and for the Nothing burger, it appears that it had some jiuce on Donal trump Jr and friends. Shocking! It was just everyone making stuff up was it not? Right.

And most people who are sane enough should be aware of this by now?

Jesus Christ. Why do you people keep thinking just because a person supports one thing about Trump's silly crusade means they're ok with every bad thing he's doing? Just stop with this nonsense already. The topic is with regards to the Mainstream Media Bullshit that's going on right now. It's less about being being informative and more about preaching to the god damn choire but with a twist that it's mostly bullshit.

I'm done with this thread as people like to inject false dichotomy, move goalposts, and push an argument with no clear data and just call it a day with substantial/annecdotal evidences.

You guys have a good day bickering.

 ¯_(ツ)_/¯

If you look at the current news, you can see it wasn't bullshit and it was Trump supporters the ones trying to throw sand into everyone's eyes.