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Forums - Sales Discussion - Time To Put The PS2 DVD Myth To Rest

people moved on already... but you just revived it again... soooo... maybe you need to put it to rest already?



 

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Soundwave said:

I got my first DVD player (a Toshiba brand one) for about $200 in fall of 2000 when The Matrix came out, but it was on sale. 

That said if DVD was such a sales driver, why didn't it help the XBox in the same way (it was easy to give it DVD capability) or why didn't the Panasonic DVD GameCube system in Japan do great numbers?

Seriously XD?

First of all Xbox released a year later and was more expensive than a PS2, secondly by that time it also had a lot of game titles, thirdly if you wanted to watch DVD movies you had to buy a seperate adaptor.... 

Panasonic Q GC did not do great because the time it released their were already +8 million PS2 consoles sold in Japan + it was also not that cheap.   
Why you don't ask yourself, why Nintendo/panasonic still went trough with making a DVD GC if DVD was not that important for PS2 sales? Maybe because a lot of Japanese families reported they got a PS2 in the first year because it was a great family system? It was simply a great gift for parents themself who could watch DVD movies with it and their kids playing games.







I don't know about the price of a DVD player back in 2000 but DVDs were such a huge part of the PS2 experience that both PSM and OPM (PlayStation magazines that I subscribed to) dedicated monthly chunks of their magazine to DVDs. I rented DVDs weekly, beginning with Hollow Man.

By the time the Gamecube and Xbox released, according to PSM, the war was already over and the other two consoles were already going to be fighting for distant second.

I still have the magazines and memories to back up my claims.



SvennoJ said:
PS2 was crap as a DVD player, while PS3 is a very good blu-ray player. I bought a second ps3 to use as a blu-ray player, while I always used a dedicated dvd player instead of the ps2. Early ps2 models did not support progressive scan output for DVD while ps3 had full 1080p hdmi output from launch.

This is also true. Lots of times I rented DVDs that wouldn't work. I'd take them back to the video store and sadly get the vhs version. Dark times.



thismeintiel said:
SvennoJ said:
PS2 was crap as a DVD player, while PS3 is a very good blu-ray player. I bought a second ps3 to use as a blu-ray player, while I always used a dedicated dvd player instead of the ps2. Early ps2 models did not support progressive scan output for DVD while ps3 had full 1080p hdmi output from launch.

Yep.  I remember this well.  My son accidentally broke the tray to my PS2.  It held in there for a few more months and then just stopped working.  So, I went and got the newer version that had the yellow + in the corner of the box.  I think it just supported progressive scan and a few more video formats.  And that came out in 2003, which is when you could get a DVD player for less than $50.

Actually the main reason I used a dedicated player was because I lived in Europe at the time while importing most of my dvds from Amazon in the US, so I needed a region free player. My ps2 and PC were locked to region code 2. My PC was my first DVD player, bought the DVD drive when Tex Murphy Overseer came out (feb 1998), first game on DVD. The drive was NLG 700 ($342) at the time. I imported my first dvd player from the UK a few months later for NLG 1500 ($735) While I paid NLG 1200 ($456) for the ps2 (plus extra controller and 2 games) when it came out November 2000. No clue how much a dvd player was at that time, but I doubt it was as much as a ps2 (bad exchange rate at the end of 2000)

By 2003 I had moved to Canada and had bought a new dvd player for CAD 150 with all digital audio outputs and progressive scan etc. And yup, budget models for CAD 50 were available as well. (dunno if they had component video output though)



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konnichiwa said:
Soundwave said:

I got my first DVD player (a Toshiba brand one) for about $200 in fall of 2000 when The Matrix came out, but it was on sale. 

That said if DVD was such a sales driver, why didn't it help the XBox in the same way (it was easy to give it DVD capability) or why didn't the Panasonic DVD GameCube system in Japan do great numbers?

Seriously XD?

First of all Xbox released a year later and was more expensive than a PS2, secondly by that time it also had a lot of game titles, thirdly if you wanted to watch DVD movies you had to buy a seperate adaptor.... 

Panasonic Q GC did not do great because the time it released their were already +8 million PS2 consoles sold in Japan + it was also not that cheap.   
Why you don't ask yourself, why Nintendo/panasonic still went trough with making a DVD GC if DVD was not that important for PS2 sales? Maybe because a lot of Japanese families reported they got a PS2 in the first year because it was a great family system? It was simply a great gift for parents themself who could watch DVD movies with it and their kids playing games.


@ bold

Nope.  You need to look that up, again.  PS2 launch price $299.  Xbox launch price $299.  PS2 price when Xbox launched...$299.  They both cost the exact same.  And they both got cuts to $199, $179, and $149 at the same time, too.  So, price had nothing to do with it. And the adaptor was only $30 and came with a remote.  A mere $30 dollars does not explain the HUGE difference between the two.

1 year headstart?  When has that made a difference?  That didn't help the Genesis, which actually got a 2 year head start, beat the SNES.  It didn't help the 3DO, Jaguar, or Saturn (more like 1/2 a year) beat the PS1, or even the N64.  It didn't help the Dreamcast beat the PS2, or even GC/Xbox.  It didn't help the 360 beat the Wii, or even PS3.  And it definitely didn't help the Wii U beat the PS4, or even XBO.  1 year means nothing if you stop constantly delivering after that year.



d21lewis said:
SvennoJ said:
PS2 was crap as a DVD player, while PS3 is a very good blu-ray player. I bought a second ps3 to use as a blu-ray player, while I always used a dedicated dvd player instead of the ps2. Early ps2 models did not support progressive scan output for DVD while ps3 had full 1080p hdmi output from launch.

This is also true. Lots of times I rented DVDs that wouldn't work. I'd take them back to the video store and sadly get the vhs version. Dark times.

Ha, early dark times indeed. Many of the DVDs I rented in The Netherlands were direct recordings from the VHS version, Dutch subtitles burned onto the picture and occasional VHS noise included... Hence I rather imported movies from the US.

I've used the ps2 a few times to watch dvds and it always disappoints me with the picture quality. Perhaps I've set it up wrong, or just too spoiled now with blu-ray and the occasional upscaled dvd.



thismeintiel said:

 

I decided to make this thread because I have noticed a myth being thrown out there as fact on a few threads.  Mainly those talking about the PS2's sales compared to the PS4's.

The myth goes like this...When the PS2 launched in late 2000 WW, it was around the same price as a cheap DVD player, so many just picked it up to have the benefits of a DVD player, that they might decide to occassionally play games on.  It's mainly used as a way to either explain the PS2's success and/or explain why the PS4 can't match the PS2.  There's one big glaring problem with that.  It's a big, fat lie.  Well, at least an ignorance on the subject.

You see, in late 2000, you could pick up a cheap DVD player for around $150, or half the price of a PS2.  Here's a link to a blog where they were looking for the $99 DVD players announced in a Yahoo News article (sadly this is not archived), but only found ones not discounted.  Searching online, they found GE and Zenith models for ~$149, a Samsung for $160, and Walmart had a GE player for $139.  And during the holidays, especially Black Friday, you could pick up one for $99, or 1/3 the price of a PS2.  The site in the first link got a bunch of replies from their readers and wrote another article about the $99 players being available for Black Friday.

This myth gets even sillier the further you look into the PS2's lifetime.  You see DVD players dropped in price quite quickly.  By 2003, they could be bought for under $50.  Keep in mind that this was less than 1/3 the price of the then $179 PS2.  Here is a Black Friday ad from 2004, that advertises a DVD player for under $18.  That's less than 1/8th the price of the then $149 PS2.  This price thing is also silly, as it does not explain why the Xbox, which was the exact same price as the PS2, wasn't also bought as a cheap DVD player.  Are people really going to try and say that a required $30 DVD kit was all that was stopping consumers from buying the Xbox en masse?

There is something else that disproves the DVD player myth.  SW attach ratios.  It's just like how we can prove the PS3 wasn't bought by millions upon millions of for its Bluray player function.  The PS3's SW attach ratio is basically tied with the 360's, which only used a DVD drive.  If there were so many people who bought it for Bluray, the attach ratio would have been MUCH smaller.  Similarly with PS2, its attach ratio would have been much lower if 25M+ of its sales were mainly for DVD use.  Instead it is right there behind the 360 and PS3, with just one less game bought per console, at 10.5:1.  And it's attach ratio is also very similar to the Xbox's.

So, I think it is time to put this ridiculous myth to rest.  It's obvious the PS2 sold so well because it had 3 things most PS systems have.  Great price.  Great 1st party support.  Great 3rd party support.  It's the same reason the PS4 is doing so well.  Granted, I don't think the PS4 will match the PS2, but 100M+ is pretty much guaranteed.  Thoughts?

No DVD was very important for PS2 success.

Japan went heavy crazy for PS2 one of the biggest reasons was DVD like you can see here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t4SJKcWbmAI

The PS2 almost shipped 10 million in its first two years in Japan (Took PS3 + 8 years and possible same or a little better for PS4).  With that kind of install base it had devs jumping on it to make games and others to even make promised exclusive games for another system go multiplatform.

the DVD for PS2 is basically the FFVII for PS one in Japan they had same huge effect.






I've never heard of this. I have heard of a lot of people buying P3 because it was cheaper than a blue ray player when it launched.



thismeintiel said:
konnichiwa said:

Seriously XD?

First of all Xbox released a year later and was more expensive than a PS2, secondly by that time it also had a lot of game titles, thirdly if you wanted to watch DVD movies you had to buy a seperate adaptor.... 

Panasonic Q GC did not do great because the time it released their were already +8 million PS2 consoles sold in Japan + it was also not that cheap.   
Why you don't ask yourself, why Nintendo/panasonic still went trough with making a DVD GC if DVD was not that important for PS2 sales? Maybe because a lot of Japanese families reported they got a PS2 in the first year because it was a great family system? It was simply a great gift for parents themself who could watch DVD movies with it and their kids playing games.


@ bold

Nope.  You need to look that up, again.  PS2 launch price $299.  Xbox launch price $299.  PS2 price when Xbox launched...$299.  They both cost the exact same.  And they both got cuts to $199, $179, and $149 at the same time, too.  So, price had nothing to do with it. And the adaptor was only $30 and came with a remote.  A mere $30 dollars does not explain the HUGE difference between the two.

1 year headstart?  When has that made a difference?  That didn't help the Genesis, which actually got a 2 year head start, beat the SNES.  It didn't help the 3DO, Jaguar, or Saturn (more like 1/2 a year) beat the PS1, or even the N64.  It didn't help the Dreamcast beat the PS2, or even GC/Xbox.  It didn't help the 360 beat the Wii, or even PS3.  And it definitely didn't help the Wii U beat the PS4, or even XBO.  1 year means nothing if you stop constantly delivering after that year.

ugh, I think you are starting to lose people now. The headstart of the Genesis certainly helped it, it even became the most selling console in Europe. Big gains compared to what the Master System did. That's why they always tried to release their console first. Saturn did a good fight the first year but it has to many issues. Dreamcast headstart kept it atleast alive for some time, if it released with PS2 around the same time it would have game over in months. Kind of amazed that you say the x360 headstart did not help its sales, it certainly did had an efffect especially if you compare it with the xbox that had not a headstart.