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Forums - Politics Discussion - Ford Cancels Plans To Move US Factory To Mexico Due To Trump ... (Hint: China)

LadyJasmine on 22 June 2017
SpokenTruth said:
Superman4 said:

Building the wall is about securing the border, it isnt about keeping out Mexicans. The border between Mexico and the US is a major crossing point for people originating from Mexico and other countries as well.

Building a wall will stop nothing.  You underestimate the determination and resourcefulness of those with dedicated intent.

LadyJasmine said:
Reality is illegal immigrants do take jobs away from Americans...

They work for a cheap rate, that Americans can't really live off and end up causing wage deflation in many sectors.

That is why a person working at a fast food point in Denmark can live well, but a person working in mcdonalds in Texas is likely on food stamps.

Let me make sure I have this correct.  You are more pissed off at immigrants trying to make a better life for themselves than you are at the businesses willing to take advantage of them and pay so little?

Its cause and effect and Its simple economics...You think we can susttain 10 million illegals, 50 million illegals? 

More people willing to work for nothing, means people will get paid less.

Its not rocket science.



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The_Yoda on 22 June 2017
Soundwave said:
outlawauron said:

Pushing for legal marijuana will impact the amount of drugs brought in through Mexico nor will it have any affect the activity of said cartels in the US. I'm not even really for the wall, but saying wall is racist is a bit disingenious. 

The wall isn't, the policy behind it is to court racists as a voting block.  It's the signature issue that spurred Trump's candidacy, he's a snake oil salesman/reality TV star, he knew pushing that button would get him lots of attention. 

Wow Soundwave you say some pretty naive things but to call it racist to expect immigrants (actually it should be insulting to immigrants to call illegals anything but what they are, illegal aliens) to obey our laws ... you should really think about things. Also your aww they clean toilets, do horrible jobs... perhaps some do but they take good jobs too. Temp agencies don't give a shit if you are legal or not if you have a social security number that goes through they will gladly make money off of finding you a job. It is the same mentality behind most temp agencies using the cheapest drug screens they can find just to be able to tell potential employers yeah they're clean.



The_Yoda on 22 June 2017
SpokenTruth said:
Superman4 said:

First of all not all illegals are hardworking, second I don’t care how much work you do if you are not here legally and abiding by our labor laws then you are hurting the American Economy not helping it. You are forcing wages down in the sector you are working and taking jobs away from Americans. Contrary to the BS statement of "Americans won’t do the work", they actually will if those positions pay a fair wage and provide health care since it is now mandatory for all US citizens. The issue is the employers see a way out of paying workers comp insurance, unemployment, benefits etc. not to mention not being required to follow labor laws for working hours and pay.  The wall is a deterrent which will do just that. It is not some impenetrable force field that will stop anything and everything but it will make it a lot harder if not impossible for a large number of individuals.

To that the business squeezing out major profits off someones labor not the person simply trying to feed their family.   It is the business that is not abiding by labor laws and harming the economy and wage levels.

If anything it is both as both are breaking the law. This isn't a chicken or the egg scenario if the illegal were not here in the first place then the business owner would not have anyone to pay in cash.  Before you scoff read my first sentence again.



outlawauron on 23 June 2017
WolfpackN64 said:
outlawauron said:

I'm arguing for a wall, I'm explaining why it is suggested. Outside of joint military operations, how exacly could the US help fight the cartels? That is, if Mexico would ever accept that level of help from the US.

The US' intelligence services have decades of experiance in anti-insurgency operations that could come in very handy in dealing with the cartels, furthermore, teh US can assist by giving equipment or by participating in joint actions with the Mexican police to stop the cartels. All will be much more cost-effective then a wall, wich would do very little to really stop the drug cartels.

Considering the US gives Mexico millions in military and economic aid every year (71m military and 350m economic was reported in 2013), I don't think it's safe to assume that we haven't or are not already doing that.



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WolfpackN64 on 23 June 2017
outlawauron said:
WolfpackN64 said:

The US' intelligence services have decades of experiance in anti-insurgency operations that could come in very handy in dealing with the cartels, furthermore, teh US can assist by giving equipment or by participating in joint actions with the Mexican police to stop the cartels. All will be much more cost-effective then a wall, wich would do very little to really stop the drug cartels.

Considering the US gives Mexico millions in military and economic aid every year (71m military and 350m economic was reported in 2013), I don't think it's safe to assume that we haven't or are not already doing that.

It's still much more cost effective. The point is the wall will cost a LOT of money and will NOT work as intended anyway.



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barneystinson69 on 23 June 2017
Hiku said:
barneystinson69 said:

"US Companies". So not the US itself, but companies? "Exercise global leadership?" These words are very empty and extremely vague. I was asking how this will benefit people economically. Realistically, the climate deal cannot reach its carbon targets in time. Here in Canada, Trudeau wants to introduce a carbon tax so as to help with this. Of course it won't work, but it will cost the average joe more money for everything. The 2 degree mark will be passed whether we like it or not. If you want to help, stop using heat, your AC, your car, stop buying all groceries at super markets (shipping produces lots of Carbon), stop using your TV and internet, ect. Also, stop buying beef, because cows produce lots of methane and require lots of crops to be fed. No one will be willing to give up all of this, so yeah, good luck!

Like I said, the US can invest in green energy without a climate deal which forces 1st world nations to give cash to 3rd world nations (and how can we say with confidence that money won't go to the top where it is never actually spent properly).

The agreement generates jobs and economic growth. US companies create the jobs which benefit "US itself" and it's citizens.
It's not detailed because it's a concise open letter and not a lab report.

USA can invest in green energy jobs without the agreement. But it is a missed opportunity, and China is taking every opportunity to strengthen it's position as the global leader that the rest of the world will turn to.
Trump prioritizes slowing down the decline and inevitable demise of a few coal and oil jobs.

How so. Please explain to me what the deal does to give the US such a big advantage, because the deal is more about cooperation, less about competitive advantage. The US is a very large market, so it automatically is very competitive.



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Superman4 on 29 June 2017
SpokenTruth said:
Superman4 said:

First of all not all illegals are hardworking, second I don’t care how much work you do if you are not here legally and abiding by our labor laws then you are hurting the American Economy not helping it. You are forcing wages down in the sector you are working and taking jobs away from Americans. Contrary to the BS statement of "Americans won’t do the work", they actually will if those positions pay a fair wage and provide health care since it is now mandatory for all US citizens. The issue is the employers see a way out of paying workers comp insurance, unemployment, benefits etc. not to mention not being required to follow labor laws for working hours and pay.  The wall is a deterrent which will do just that. It is not some impenetrable force field that will stop anything and everything but it will make it a lot harder if not impossible for a large number of individuals.

To that the business squeezing out major profits off someones labor not the person simply trying to feed their family.   It is the business that is not abiding by labor laws and harming the economy and wage levels.

I agree. Huge penalties need to be placed on anyone employing illegals.

Just to be clear though, I am all for immigration. I want America to be the place everyone wants to go and be a part of. In order for America to stay America though people need to become citizens, learn the language and our laws and agree to follow our general principals in regards to freedom of religion etc. Coming here illigally, not learning english and hurting legal citizens byu forcing wages lower is not becoming an American.