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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Is emulating acceptable?

 

Title

Yes 126 47.19%
 
If the game is owned 62 23.22%
 
If both the game and console is owned 40 14.98%
 
No 39 14.61%
 
Total:267
Pemalite said:
AsGryffynn said:

I was indeed referring to abandonware, which most games from the fifth generation and below are. Legally it's also alright, as though there are laws in place to protect the piracy of content, use of a product which is no longer in production falls under fair use. 

The age of a game doesn't change it's legality at all.

Zelda: Breath of the Wild is perfectly legal to emulate, provided you purchased the original game.

I wouldn't say perfectly legal. Nintendo doesn't allow it for one

According to any Nintendo game manual:
Copying of any Nintendo game is illegal and is strictly prohibited by domestic and international intellectual property laws. "Back-up" or "archival" copies are not authorized and are not necessary to protect your software. Violators will be prosecuted.

This can be overidden by local law, for the US

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/17/117

(a) Making of Additional Copy or Adaptation by Owner of Copy.—Notwithstanding the provisions of section 106, it is not an infringement for the owner of a copy of a computer program to make or authorize the making of another copy or adaptation of that computer program provided:

(1) that such a new copy or adaptation is created as an essential step in the utilization of the computer program in conjunction with a machine and that it is used in no other manner, or

(2)
that such new copy or adaptation is for archival purposes only and that all archival copies are destroyed in the event that continued possession of the computer program should cease to be rightful.

It is an essential step to make a copy before being able to run Botw in the emulator, so therefore it should be allowed. That is IF a court of law rules that usage of the program in an emulator falls under "utilization of the computer program in conjunction with a machine" which is very broad language and emulators were likely never included in the intent of the law. Nintendo will definitely argue it is not essential to make a copy before utilization of the computer program with a machine, since there is the WiiU in which it works fine. "A machine" does not mean any or all machines.

So no perfectly legal it's not. Legal gray area until tested in court.


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SvennoJ said:
Pemalite said:

The age of a game doesn't change it's legality at all.

Zelda: Breath of the Wild is perfectly legal to emulate, provided you purchased the original game.

I wouldn't say perfectly legal. Nintendo doesn't allow it for one

According to any Nintendo game manual:
Copying of any Nintendo game is illegal and is strictly prohibited by domestic and international intellectual property laws. "Back-up" or "archival" copies are not authorized and are not necessary to protect your software. Violators will be prosecuted.

This can be overidden by local law, for the US

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/17/117

(a) Making of Additional Copy or Adaptation by Owner of Copy.—Notwithstanding the provisions of section 106, it is not an infringement for the owner of a copy of a computer program to make or authorize the making of another copy or adaptation of that computer program provided:

(1) that such a new copy or adaptation is created as an essential step in the utilization of the computer program in conjunction with a machine and that it is used in no other manner, or

(2)
that such new copy or adaptation is for archival purposes only and that all archival copies are destroyed in the event that continued possession of the computer program should cease to be rightful.

It is an essential step to make a copy before being able to run Botw in the emulator, so therefore it should be allowed. That is IF a court of law rules that usage of the program in an emulator falls under "utilization of the computer program in conjunction with a machine" which is very broad language and emulators were likely never included in the intent of the law. Nintendo will definitely argue it is not essential to make a copy before utilization of the computer program with a machine, since there is the WiiU in which it works fine. "A machine" does not mean any or all machines.

So no perfectly legal it's not. Legal gray area until tested in court.

I don't think Nintendo can do diddly squat about emulators...as I said earlier, DraStic is $5 for years on Google PlayStore, still regarded as best DS emulator.



SegataSanshiro said:
Personally I never do it. I support the games new if I can. Older games still play it on the hardware. Other than that I still purchase them legit on a service.

Whether you play games on old hardware or emulation, you aren't supporting the anybody but the people selling that stuff. Also, there are many games that would be very expensive or impossible to play without emulation. For example, thousands of arcade games.

The only time I really feel emulation is bad is when you're playing modern titles that just released. Which has been an issue for Nintendo.



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SvennoJ said:

I wouldn't say perfectly legal. Nintendo doesn't allow it for one

According to any Nintendo game manual:
Copying of any Nintendo game is illegal and is strictly prohibited by domestic and international intellectual property laws. "Back-up" or "archival" copies are not authorized and are not necessary to protect your software. Violators will be prosecuted.

This can be overidden by local law, for the US

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/17/117

(a) Making of Additional Copy or Adaptation by Owner of Copy.—Notwithstanding the provisions of section 106, it is not an infringement for the owner of a copy of a computer program to make or authorize the making of another copy or adaptation of that computer program provided:

(1) that such a new copy or adaptation is created as an essential step in the utilization of the computer program in conjunction with a machine and that it is used in no other manner, or

(2)
that such new copy or adaptation is for archival purposes only and that all archival copies are destroyed in the event that continued possession of the computer program should cease to be rightful.

It is an essential step to make a copy before being able to run Botw in the emulator, so therefore it should be allowed. That is IF a court of law rules that usage of the program in an emulator falls under "utilization of the computer program in conjunction with a machine" which is very broad language and emulators were likely never included in the intent of the law. Nintendo will definitely argue it is not essential to make a copy before utilization of the computer program with a machine, since there is the WiiU in which it works fine. "A machine" does not mean any or all machines.

So no perfectly legal it's not. Legal gray area until tested in court.

Copying a game is illegal.
Emulating a game is legal.

That's been tested in court. Aka. Bleem vs Sony.

Some countries like Australia (And a large chunk of Europe) have made it legal to make backup copy's of media you already own.

Some like the UK allowed for the creation of backup copies of Media provided you do not circumvent any Copy Protection schemes... Sadly. Even that has been made illegal now.


***

You are right though, in the case of Emulating Breath of the Wild currently you do need to rip the game for CEMU to play nice with it... And the legalities of which will vary from region to region. (I.E. Legal for me. But maybe not for you as Canada tends to follow the US on these issues.)
Eventually though, CEMU will likely support running directly from Optical Disks, but it's early days yet.

Nintendo can say whatever it wants, it's EULA/ToS/Policy does not override your consumer rights or the legal system. That's a fact.



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

One thing is for sure even if they don't admit it, Pc master race Pirates loves to emulategames.



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CladInShadows said:
Ruler said:

which one no?

Pirating is not OK.

Why is pirating new games not okay, but old game is?

SvennoJ said:
Ruler said:

Would you consider pirating this as a poor excusefor example? http://www.ebay.com/itm/PANZER-DRAGOON-SAGA-SEGA-SATURN-MINT-CONDITION-COMPLETE-/232248724889?hash=item36131a4d99:g:nbsAAOSw2gxYrRlt

What seems affortable to you maybe isnt for someone else. It applies to modern games just as much.

Panzer Dragoon Orta for XBox includes a full port of the original game.
https://www.ebay.com/p/Panzer-Dragoon-Orta-Microsoft-Xbox-2003/9179
Probably even cheaper if you look around in second hand stores.
It's on the wishlist at GoG.com as well so it might end up there eventually.

Plus there's always the option of not playing it. There's plenty stuff that is affordable.

I am not talking about Panzer Dragoon 1 but Panzer Dragoon Saga, which was only released on the Sega Saturn.



Pemalite said:
SvennoJ said:

I wouldn't say perfectly legal. Nintendo doesn't allow it for one

According to any Nintendo game manual:
Copying of any Nintendo game is illegal and is strictly prohibited by domestic and international intellectual property laws. "Back-up" or "archival" copies are not authorized and are not necessary to protect your software. Violators will be prosecuted.

This can be overidden by local law, for the US

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/17/117

(a) Making of Additional Copy or Adaptation by Owner of Copy.—Notwithstanding the provisions of section 106, it is not an infringement for the owner of a copy of a computer program to make or authorize the making of another copy or adaptation of that computer program provided:

(1) that such a new copy or adaptation is created as an essential step in the utilization of the computer program in conjunction with a machine and that it is used in no other manner, or

(2)
that such new copy or adaptation is for archival purposes only and that all archival copies are destroyed in the event that continued possession of the computer program should cease to be rightful.

It is an essential step to make a copy before being able to run Botw in the emulator, so therefore it should be allowed. That is IF a court of law rules that usage of the program in an emulator falls under "utilization of the computer program in conjunction with a machine" which is very broad language and emulators were likely never included in the intent of the law. Nintendo will definitely argue it is not essential to make a copy before utilization of the computer program with a machine, since there is the WiiU in which it works fine. "A machine" does not mean any or all machines.

So no perfectly legal it's not. Legal gray area until tested in court.

Copying a game is illegal.
Emulating a game is legal.

That's been tested in court. Aka. Bleem vs Sony.

Some countries like Australia (And a large chunk of Europe) have made it legal to make backup copy's of media you already own.

Some like the UK allowed for the creation of backup copies of Media provided you do not circumvent any Copy Protection schemes... Sadly. Even that has been made illegal now.


***

You are right though, in the case of Emulating Breath of the Wild currently you do need to rip the game for CEMU to play nice with it... And the legalities of which will vary from region to region. (I.E. Legal for me. But maybe not for you as Canada tends to follow the US on these issues.)
Eventually though, CEMU will likely support running directly from Optical Disks, but it's early days yet.

Nintendo can say whatever it wants, it's EULA/ToS/Policy does not override your consumer rights or the legal system. That's a fact.

Ah I see in Australian law you're allowed to use a copy if you store the original or if the original stops working, as long as you're the owner.

There's one more step to be tested in court. Does use on an emulator fall under normal use of a copy. I doubt Nintendo wants to test this in court. It can only lead to one thing, bad PR or the subsequent move to have to be always online to play any title :/ And people are already asking for a Switch with 3G, careful what you wish for.

Edit: Nintendo ofcourse doesn't really care that you run your own copy in an emulator in your own home. It's just too easy to run pirated copies in the same emulator. The only thing they can really do is to go after torrents, time consuming, costly, bad PR, not worth it as long as it's not a big problem. As long as you don't file share or download roms you don't have anything to worry about. Although you could still get targeted for downloading the software to make a copy if that circumvents security measures. I doubt that will happen. We're already well underway in the transition to digital licenses instead of owning software anyway.



Legality depends on the country or even specific region of a country you live in.

As for moral reason, I would say it would be moral so long as you own the game and the console. I would even go as far as to say, if you do not own the game for the particular console (but you still own the console) but own a legitimate version of it that is being emulated on another system (for example, you have a Sega Genesis console but you do not own Sonic for the Genesis but instead you own the Virtual Console version which is a direct emulation of the Sega Genesis version) then that would also be moral. The only cases where I would say it is immoral is if you do not own the original game, the console that is being emulated, or you do own the original and are emulating a modified new release that you do not own (like a remake).



Ruler said:
CladInShadows said:

Pirating is not OK.

Why is pirating new games not okay, but old game is?

Where did I say pirating old games was ok?



palou said:

I own both a wii and a copy of mario galaxy... 

 

Would it be acceptble (both legally and morally) to emulate the game on my PC?

 

Straight up piracy is wrong, of course, but I mean, it's not like I refused to pay nintendo for any of their work...

It's not wrong.  It's illegal.  Two different issues.  Your game.  Do what you want with is as long as you aren't directly profitting from it with the exception of selling it to someone else.