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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Switch Revisions Are Basically Already Possible

DélioPT said:
Miyamotoo said:

Actualy they usual have more products than 2, just look at last year, Wii U at $300, New 3DS XL at $199, New 3DS at around $150 and 2DS at $100.That's basically 4 price points, from $100 to 300.

Dont look to much in Nintendo PR talk, they also said that Switch isnt successor to 3DS, but you will see how they changing their song when 3DS dies.

Having just $270 and $330 price point would be bad for Nintendo because for first time they wouldn't have in generation lower price point ($150-200). They will certainly work to have Switch at lower price, and most logical and most certain thing would be to release Switch Mini/Pocket for just handheld playing after 3DS dies for around $200, and I am certain they will do exatly that.

You do realise that Wii was 20-30x times less powerful and still sold better than PS3/Xbox360. If Switch sales good, 3rd parties will port their games to Switch despite power difference, what Switch will offer compared to PS4/XB1/Pro/Scorpio is play on go.

I wasn't talking about HW revisions, just the number of platforms.
In 2012, Nintendo only had two machines, revisions came with time. The same can happen in the years to come.

It isn't just Nintendo PR, it's what the machine does and how people perceive it: home console and handheld in one.
A machine that only does part of it will be seen as an inferior product.

Yes, they won't have that low price point anytime soon and at the same time, will they actually needed it if the machine/machines sell very well?
People payed 400$ for a PS4 in droves when no one expected it due to the price; Sony sold 50 something million consoles with prices averaging above 300$. Will they need to lower the price to make people buy one. I don't think so.

If the price is good and the machine is appealing, people are more than willing to give in and pay more.

Play on the go will not make games possible on the platform nor will it eliminate the problems with the ports it can get - again, if they can get.
Nintendo needs to give developers a machine that can get their games without too much troube, otherwise we will see a Wii U situation all over again: even before the console was released, only a few developers were willing to bet on it.
I get that if the console sells, developers will try harder, but i don't think the end result will be good, and if it's not good, consumers will buy that 3rd party game on XB or PS.

It doesn't matter, point is that Nintendo always looking to have multiple price points on market and to cover wide range of market with their price points, and only difference with Switch is that will be only platform and not deviaded like before on two separate platforms (different handheld and different home console platform).

If you paid attention on Nintendo PR, you would know the current talking about Switch like home console of 1st place, and only reason why they doing that because Wii U is dead while 3DS is still selling.

Like I wrote, Sony and Nintendo operating different, and of course they will need lower price point because with current price point of Switch they dont have replacement for segment of $150-200 price point that's currently covered buy 3DS and 3DS XL. Of Course that much more people will be become part of Switch platform if they have device for $150-200 that plays Switch games instead of $300 (espacily for those who dont want to play on TV).

If you have different price points for platform, automatically you aiming at much wider market than with just one price point. Do you think that 3DS would sell so much if they had only one price point of $200!? Offcouse not.

Any games could be ported to Switch, if devs want they can ported even to PS3/Xbox360, or Wii or mobile phones. You do realise that on launch Wii U actually had pretty solid 3rd party support (Call Of Duty, Batman, Mass Effect, NFS, Fifa, NBA...) but 3rd party abandon Wii U after terrible sales and when realise that Wii U is a fail. If Switch sells good and become popular it will have more 3rd party games, but offcourse that never will be on same level like on PS4/XB1, but that would be fact even if Switch has exactly same hardware like PS4/XB1 because 3rd party knows that 3rd party games are in most cases selling worst on Nintendo platform because people buying Nintendo platforms on 1st place just to play Nintendo games.

 

 

Soundwave said:
Miyamotoo said:

Yes, Nintendo released versions of DS and 3DS very fast because there were need for that, because DS and 3DS has relatively small screens on launch, while Switch already has big screen on launch, that actually much bigger than 3DS XL screen.

Comparisons with PS4Slim/XB1Slim (espacily for Scorpio/Pro) doesnt make any sense, beuse XL versions in Nintendo case are always more expensive than regular version.

You again still missing main point that I wrote about XL model of Switch so fast: "I dont see in any case XL version so soon beacsue there is no need for bigger and more expnasive Switch so soon, when fact is that Switch already has huge screen for handheld gaming console and huge difference compared to 3DS XLs 4.9" screen or any previous handheld, and when Switch already has price of $300. Compared to that when 3DS XL was launch had regular 3DS had screen of just 3.5" and regular 3DS had price point of $170, so totally made sense to release so fast bigger and more expansive 3DS, but there is no same point with Switch because like I wrote Switch already has big screen and already has much higher price point. Nintendo could make XL in 2018. but there is no or point for that, but they will definitely need smaller, cheaper Switch when 3DS dies".

Also you dont know how good deal Nvidia gave Nintendo for X1 chips (buy infos they gave them very good deal) and how many X1 chips Nintendo has. Most likely eventually Nintendo will move on Tegra X2, but I dont see that next year.

I agree that Switch will have multiple hardwares that will be part of platform, but I am certain we will not have XL version next year and probably not even in 2019.

I think you'll have both. A smaller model with bezels removed will basically replace the current 20nm model. It'll be somewhat smaller and better on battery. 

And they'll have a version with a larger screen and perhaps full docked performance even in undocked mode, this will "XL" but actually won't be any bigger than the current Switch. 

The bezels on the current Switch let them manipulate the size easily. And both the above models I think probably exist right now in Nintendo's R&D. They are just weighing when they want to release them, probably for the 2018 fiscal year, they are going to want a boost in sales. Also larger screen revisions sell better than smaller ones, so if sales are the priority (and they obviously are), guess which one will take priority. 

Don't be so sure Nintendo is in a huge rush to get back to the 3DS market ... the 3DS quite honestly has been a bit of a sales dissapointment the last 3 years mainly salvaged by a bump from the Pokemon Go craze, but aside from that that form factor was really, really looking tired. 

I think Nintendo is fine dropping the price on the Switch, they probably could do that even today without much fuss. But I don't think they're in as mad of a rush to get back to clamshell style portables as some Nintendo traditionalists think. Part and parcel *why* the Switch has been so positively received to date IMO is because of the form factor, if it was just a clamshell with a Tegra shoved into it, I really don't think it would be generating anywhere near the same buzz right now. It would just be more of the same ol', same ol'. 

If Switch continues to sell reasonably well, I think Nintendo is going to grow more and more confident in this form factor and let go of the DS/3DS era in many ways altogether, just like Game Boy and many of the "brand rules" of the Game Boy (ie: Game Boy can't cost more than $99) went bye-bye. 

We getting go in circles...like I wrote, I dont say there will not be at all bigger Switch at all or Tegra X2 at all, but I am certain we will not have so soon Switch XL (next year) beacuse there no need for that beacsue reason I wrote to you.

I agree that one point we could have Switch full docked with higher performance, but again I dont see that in next 2 years.

You again ignoring fact that Switch alread has big screen and its more expansive compared to 3DS (6.2" is actually very big screens for handheld console and current $300 Switch is already much more expensive than 3DS XL), that make huge difference compared when we had DSi XL and 3DS XL. Hardly you will have somone that want buy bigger Switch XL beacuse they want bigger Switch or more expansive Switch (lol), but you will definatly have actualy huge number of people who want only Switch portable (small, practical with stronger battery), or who dont want to pay $300 to play Switch games and for people that seems a lot to upgrade from 3DS.

3DS dies, thats why I say there are chanches that next year we will have smaller/cheaper Switch Mini/Pocket that will effectively replace 3DS/3DS XL with price point of around $200.

Yes, Nintendo can lower price of Switch, they were very clear stating that they want to Switch be profatible from launch compared to Wii U/3DS, but they don't have any reason to lower price if Switch sales good at this price, and its seems that Switch is selling good and that will be popular. Wii was selling great and of course they did not have price cut at 1st year, only you can expect price cut this year if they are not satisfied with sales.

Yes, I also think we will have multiple devices that will be part of Switch, Switch Mini/Pocket, maybe more powerful only docked Switch, maybe XL Switch, and one point definitely more stronger Switch that maybe will be Switch 2...and all could play same games. Thats sound like good plan.



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I think the current Switch will go down to $250 this fall and could go even further next year. So I don't think they need a new entire model to have a cheaper system.

That Tegra chip is likely already about as cheap as its ever going to get.

Switch 2 I'm pretty sure is actually what Nintendo's R&D is actually working on now. That will likely be the Tegra Xavier chip (which is basically Tegra X3).

They have Switch 16nm (smaller by cutting off bezels) and Switch XL (larger screen by replacing the dead space of the bezel with larger screen real estate) I think already finished right now, and yes with the Tegra X2.

They might tweak the aesthetics of it, but likely that will just sit on their R&D shelf for like the next 12-15 months before they greenlight it for mass production.

I think Nintendo will only rush to a dirt cheap model if sales of the Switch are poor going forward. If they're not, IMO Nintendo will get comfortable with a higher price point for the time being IMO. Once upon a time the "rule" for Nintendo portables was you could not release a portable over $99.99. That was it, that was the standard price for over 10 years. Then it changed with DS, and then it changed again with the XL models basically making $199.99 the new standard price point that most people buy. 

I mean if Switch is selling well, then really is $250 w/a game bundled (quite possible by this fall even) really that different from the standard 3DS XL pricing of $199.99 without a game? Quite possible that $250 I could see becoming the new "standard" price. Inflation happens and Switch quite frankly offers a far more premium experience than old Nintendo portables, Nintendo is well within reason to say "hey you know $250 should be the new standard price, not $200". You couldn't exactly play DS on your TV (not that you'd want to anyway as it'd look so fugly). 



I like nintendo games. But I don't play on the go.
So for me Switch home edition without screen and joycons and for 150 usd will be a deal. No joycons. No screen. No stand. No battery. Just a small box with a hdmi, usb and cartridge slot and a pro controller in bundle. I'd be happy with this option.



Sharu said:

I like nintendo games. But I don't play on the go.
So for me Switch home edition without screen and joycons and for 150 usd will be a deal. No joycons. No screen. No stand. No battery. Just a small box with a hdmi, usb and cartridge slot and a pro controller in bundle. I'd be happy with this option.

Hardly you could get that for $150.



Soundwave said:

I think the current Switch will go down to $250 this fall and could go even further next year. So I don't think they need a new entire model to have a cheaper system.

That Tegra chip is likely already about as cheap as its ever going to get.

Switch 2 I'm pretty sure is actually what Nintendo's R&D is actually working on now. That will likely be the Tegra Xavier chip (which is basically Tegra X3).

They have Switch 16nm (smaller by cutting off bezels) and Switch XL (larger screen by replacing the dead space of the bezel with larger screen real estate) I think already finished right now, and yes with the Tegra X2.

They might tweak the aesthetics of it, but likely that will just sit on their R&D shelf for like the next 12-15 months before they greenlight it for mass production.

I think Nintendo will only rush to a dirt cheap model if sales of the Switch are poor going forward. If they're not, IMO Nintendo will get comfortable with a higher price point for the time being IMO. Once upon a time the "rule" for Nintendo portables was you could not release a portable over $99.99. That was it, that was the standard price for over 10 years. Then it changed with DS, and then it changed again with the XL models basically making $199.99 the new standard price point that most people buy. 

I mean if Switch is selling well, then really is $250 w/a game bundled (quite possible by this fall even) really that different from the standard 3DS XL pricing of $199.99 without a game? Quite possible that $250 I could see becoming the new "standard" price. Inflation happens and Switch quite frankly offers a far more premium experience than old Nintendo portables, Nintendo is well within reason to say "hey you know $250 should be the new standard price, not $200". You couldn't exactly play DS on your TV (not that you'd want to anyway as it'd look so fugly). 

There is no reason that Switch recives price cut in its 1st year if actualy sells, we cant get price cut this year only if Nintendo is not happy with sales. But I definitely see Switch bundled with one game this holiday season.

You dont know what offer Nvidia gave Nintendo for X1 chip and how much is Tegra X2 chip.

Switch 2 or Pro will definitely be again Nvidia in any case. Apparently Nvidia has huge stock of X1 chips and that's why they gave great offer to Nintendo for X1 chips.

I dont see XL model next year in any case, but there is no any need for XL model, espacily so fast.

They will rush with cheaper/smaller Switch when 3DS dies in any case because they would left on market just with one $300 device, and they always had lower price point hardware on market.

There is no chanche that will have $250 Switch with bunled game this holiday seaons, most likly scenario is $300 with bundled game, price cut to $250 only if Switch sells bad. This holiday season $300 Switch with bundled games and already availibe games like Zelda BotW, Mario Odyssey, MK8 Deluxe, Splatoon 2, maybe even Pokemon/Smash, will have great sales.



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There's a laundry list of areas in which the Switch could easily improve in terms of user feel and general sense of luxury as a consumer product. And Soundwave is probably right that the R&D department are testing a range of components for use in a future revision.

It was absolutely the same with the first model of the DS. And to some extent the 3DS (I'm thinking about the way too cheap cameras here mostly.) First the constellation of product functionality proves its market viability, and THEN we can talk general product improvement. But for the launch unit, going cheap has its advantages.

If Switch keeps selling well, I'm expecting a sleek looking revision by summer 2018. Sort of like the DSlite. Not sooner, but not much later either.



Miyamotoo said:
Sharu said:

I like nintendo games. But I don't play on the go.
So for me Switch home edition without screen and joycons and for 150 usd will be a deal. No joycons. No screen. No stand. No battery. Just a small box with a hdmi, usb and cartridge slot and a pro controller in bundle. I'd be happy with this option.

Hardly you could get that for $150.

I'm not in a rush until new Fire Emblem on Switch is out. )



Sharu said:
Miyamotoo said:

Hardly you could get that for $150.

I'm not in a rush until new Fire Emblem on Switch is out. )

From now it seems that plan is to launch Fire Emblem next year, I hardly doubt you will have Switch only for home console playing next year for $150.



Well the other thing is how do you even make a smaller/cheaper Switch with the same 20nm chip? Like how is that supposed to magically work?

The current Switch is likely as small as you can have that chip without overheating, it's a hot chip. And we've seen teardowns now of the Switch, there's very little dead space in that design at all, it's considerably smaller than even the Shield Console.

And where are you saving money from to be able to sell it for any cheaper? The 2DS is cheaper than the standard 3DS because it loses the 3D screen, what exactly would a smaller Switch be losing? Those Joycons really likely don't cost anywhere near what people think they do either, once Nintendo gets past the initial cost of covering their R&D it's likely you're looking at a $2-$3 piece of plastic on both ends.

In actuality I think a very small version of the current Switch will actually come later rather than sooner, much like GBA Micro or 2DS (while not smaller it was basically the "kids version" of 3DS aimed at the budget market). 

All other Nintendo revisions have either been the same price or more expensive than their predecessor.

To make a model any smaller you're going to need a chip that generates less heat. And that's really only possibly with the 16nm Tegra ... which likely means Tegra X2, Nvidia has already designed it and fabbed it out, it would be a pointless extra expense spending time on another 16nm design when Nvidia has already made a perfectly good one already.



Soundwave said:

Well the other thing is how do you even make a smaller/cheaper Switch with the same 20nm chip? Like how is that supposed to magically work?

The current Switch is likely as small as you can have that chip without overheating, it's a hot chip. And we've seen teardowns now of the Switch, there's very little dead space in that design at all, it's considerably smaller than even the Shield Console.

And where are you saving money from to be able to sell it for any cheaper? The 2DS is cheaper than the standard 3DS because it loses the 3D screen, what exactly would a smaller Switch be losing? Those Joycons really likely don't cost anywhere near what people think they do either, once Nintendo gets past the initial cost of covering their R&D it's likely you're looking at a $2-$3 piece of plastic on both ends.

All other Nintendo revisions have either been the same price or more expensive than their predecessor.

To make a model any smaller you're going to need a chip that generates less heat. And that's really only possibly with the 16nm Tegra ... which likely means Tegra X2, Nvidia has already designed it and fabbed it out, it would be a pointless extra expense spending time on another 16nm design when Nvidia has already made a perfectly good one already.

Easily, smaller screen make smaller device with less and smaller parts. Fact that doesn't need to work in dock mode means they can ditch some things from Switch itself, not to mention ditchable Joy Cons, Dock, cables, also less materials required and smaller package.

I am pretty sure they would make good cooling despite its small form factor. Smaller device means smaller screen and smaller battery.

I already wrote that above, Switch Mini/Pocket will cheaper because it's smaller and doesn't need to work in docked mode. Hardly that teach and parts inside Joy Cons cost $2-3.

You said itself that 2DS is much cheaper than 3DS.

That's not true, I am pretty sure that can easily make smaller Switch with good managed cooling with same X1 chip that's already inside current Switch. We know that current Switch doesnt have any heat issues despite its much smaller than Nvidia Shield.