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Locked: Rioting Breaks Out In Sweden

Forums - Politics Discussion - Rioting Breaks Out In Sweden

Slimebeast said:
Mummelmann said:

 

Over half of my colleagues at work are immigrants, either first or second generation and all of them are awesome, and most immigrants are great. But the chasm between "us and them" is growing larger by the year, and where it's bad, it's really bad, no matter how some try to disguise it or refuse to talk about it. One of the main issues here is that a racist party has more or less hijacked the debate on immigration and others are afraid to touch the subject and be labelled as racists or fascists, and the resistance towards any and all arguments pointing to negatives of immigration, and especially poor integration, becomes massive when it is perceived to connect with those who are real racists. The biggest critics of the poor integration in the country that I've ever met are immigrants themselves.

High crime rates are tied to poverty, low employment, low value areas with little development incentive and low school attendance, it doesn't matter what "race" you are. But, regardless of the mechanics behind high crime rates; it's still a problem that needs to be adressed and not something to be ignored, as has been the case here for many years. Pairing this with an utterly despicable police chief and constant political reforms pulling in different directions doesn't exactly help either.

Oh com'on. Crime is tied to poverty and unemployment to a degree, but it's also tied to culture and values in a society or among sub-groups of people, or else you would never see the extreme discrepancies between people with a Middle Eastern background (5-10 times more prone to violent crime than ethnic Swedes) and East Asian background (who commit clearly less violent crime than native Swedes).

And to call Sweden democrats a "racist" party, geez. With that attitude why don't you go back to Norway dude. You write an excellent post filled with the exact same arguments that are only brought up by the Sweden democrats into the political discourse and yet they get the racist label from you.

That's because the East Asians that came were much better off than the Middle Eastern immigrants. It's the same thing in the United States: the blacks were forced into slavery and thus were poorer than whites, while a limit on immigration from non-white countries until around the 1960s ensured that generally  educated and well-off Asians would be allowed to immigrate, yet many people completely ignore this or are unaware of it and try to compare blacks unforabourably to Asians.



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fatslob-:O said:

Lo and behold, Trump ended up being right which means validating those with a similar political platform LOL ...

No, he wasn't right. Something happening after his speech doesn't make him saying something happened the day prior to his speech correct.



thismeintiel said:
VGPolyglot said:

Sure, like people in a foreign country, where they could risk being deported, would just riot for the fun of it.

Yes, migrants/refugees can be assholes, too. You realize Sweden provides a shit ton of support for these people, right? And many Swedish people refuse to even think about the migrant problem, increasing rape, assault, and murder cases, giving them the benefit of doubt. Most are just good people. Definitely naive, but good intentioned. But, when you import a ton of people without proper vetting, this is what happens. 

@OP

Really interesting. Just today I was listening to a radio program where they had a guy on who made a documentary about this. He actually got his ass beat up just for filming in a "no go zone." He had interviewed many people in Sweden who were basically just ignoring the problem, saying it was racist to even suggest there may even be a problem. It also focused on how the government in Sweden was just ignoring it, as well.

Even if Trump misspoke about when the previous attacks have happened, maybe at least now people will focus on the problem.

Are you talking about the same guy that edited the Swedish police interview out of context to serve his rethoric? Is that the guy?

The same guy who couldn't get statistics to work for him while promoting his "fake" documentary?



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VGPolyglot said:

No, he wasn't right. Something happening after his speech doesn't make him saying something happened the day prior to his speech correct.

Hey, he's at least right about mass immigration being a problem though so that counts for something LOL ... 



VGPolyglot said:
Slimebeast said:

Oh com'on. Crime is tied to poverty and unemployment to a degree, but it's also tied to culture and values in a society or among sub-groups of people, or else you would never see the extreme discrepancies between people with a Middle Eastern background (5-10 times more prone to violent crime than ethnic Swedes) and East Asian background (who commit clearly less violent crime than native Swedes).

And to call Sweden democrats a "racist" party, geez. With that attitude why don't you go back to Norway dude. You write an excellent post filled with the exact same arguments that are only brought up by the Sweden democrats into the political discourse and yet they get the racist label from you.

That's because the East Asians that came were much better off than the Middle Eastern immigrants. It's the same thing in the United States: the blacks were forced into slavery and thus were poorer than whites, while a limit on immigration from non-white countries until around the 1960s ensured that generally  educated and well-off Asians would be allowed to immigrate, yet many people completely ignore this or are unaware of it and try to compare blacks unforabourably to Asians.

Nope.

We're talking about groups who both came into the country with zero pennies in their pockets and no education. Still the x10 times discrepancy.

It doesn't matter very much which class of society the Chinese immigrants come from, they still don't commit violent crime in Western countrues.

OMG, why is it so hard to admit that a society's or a people's culture and values affect aggression and criminal behaviour?



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Slimebeast said:
Goatseye said:

So there is no basis to your claim? Got it.

By and large, integration has been a success story there, save for incidents like Monday night's, which have taken place in highly segregated neighbourhoods.

The newspaper Dagens Nyheter analysed crime statistics between October 2015 and January 2016 and came to the conclusion that refugees were responsible for only 1 per cent of all incidents.

That has done little to assuage the perceptions, even among Swedes, that foreigners are culpable for the crime that does happen.

A Pew Research Center study conducted in early 2016 indicated that 46 percent of Swedes believed that "refugees in our country are more to blame for crime than other groups."

I'm a skeptic person Slime, I work with palpable pieces of information and not emotional hunches. I condemn violence and I am not selective on it.
And based on our argument once about French national team, your claims get more scrutinized in my eyes.

"came to the conclusion that refugees were responsible for only 1 per cent of all incidents."
But what's the definition of a refugee in that context?
1% of all crimes were commited by newly arrived asylum seeker, people who hardly aren't even registered in the country yet. It's totally ignoring the other 1.5 million refugees here that came in the last three decades and their offspring. If those were counted you'd get 50% or so.

Okay I found a source in English:

https://muslimstatistics.wordpress.com/2016/08/21/sweden-migrants-responsible-for-95-of-all-crimes-overrepresented-by-430/

Which are based on official statistics from 2005, mind you that they're extrapolated into reflecting the population makeup in 2015.

Your source doesn't have any data newer than 2001 and fails to look into the connection between crime and enonomic situation. How does crime representation compare between immigrants and native born Swedes in the same economic situation?



Bet with Adamblaziken:

I bet that on launch the Nintendo Switch will have no built in in-game voice chat. He bets that it will. The winner gets six months of avatar control over the other user.





Chinese food for breakfast

 

Goatseye said:
thismeintiel said:

Yes, migrants/refugees can be assholes, too. You realize Sweden provides a shit ton of support for these people, right? And many Swedish people refuse to even think about the migrant problem, increasing rape, assault, and murder cases, giving them the benefit of doubt. Most are just good people. Definitely naive, but good intentioned. But, when you import a ton of people without proper vetting, this is what happens. 

@OP

Really interesting. Just today I was listening to a radio program where they had a guy on who made a documentary about this. He actually got his ass beat up just for filming in a "no go zone." He had interviewed many people in Sweden who were basically just ignoring the problem, saying it was racist to even suggest there may even be a problem. It also focused on how the government in Sweden was just ignoring it, as well.

Even if Trump misspoke about when the previous attacks have happened, maybe at least now people will focus on the problem.

Are you talking about the same guy that edited the Swedish police interview out of context to serve his rethoric? Is that the guy?

The same guy who couldn't get statistics to work for him while promoting his "fake" documentary?

The Swedish cops use code words as "gang related violence" or "suburb crime" when in practice they're refering to violence that is to +90% commited by people with immigrant background. But in Sweden all hell breaks lose if a cop blames immigrants.

You need to understand that the Swedish mentality is very mild and humble, very un-confrontational. These two policemen in Horowitz interview simply got scared of the worldwide media attention and the severe consequences they get if they imply that they agree with image portrayed in the TV program.

It was not a fake documentary by Horowitz that was shown on Fox. Everything they said is correct (except that they mixed up the year 2015 with 2016 when it came to the 160,000 refugees in one year).

In fact, the rebuttal to the documentary by our biggest tabloid Aftonbladet somebody linked to, their rebuttal was completely fake!

This is a farse. Sweden is a mess. You need to understand Sweden and Swedish mentality to get it.

Trump was entirely right. Sweden as a collective is now going all out in damage control to hide the truth about our imported problems.



Slimebeast said:
VGPolyglot said:

That's because the East Asians that came were much better off than the Middle Eastern immigrants. It's the same thing in the United States: the blacks were forced into slavery and thus were poorer than whites, while a limit on immigration from non-white countries until around the 1960s ensured that generally  educated and well-off Asians would be allowed to immigrate, yet many people completely ignore this or are unaware of it and try to compare blacks unforabourably to Asians.

Nope.

We're talking about groups who both came into the country with zero pennies in their pockets and no education. Still the x10 times discrepancy.

It doesn't matter very much which class of society the Chinese immigrants come from, they still don't commit violent crime in Western countrues.

OMG, why is it so hard to admit that a society's or a people's culture and values affect aggression and criminal behaviour?

Perhaps it is because you are generalizing an entire group of people?



Slimebeast said:
VGPolyglot said:

That's because the East Asians that came were much better off than the Middle Eastern immigrants. It's the same thing in the United States: the blacks were forced into slavery and thus were poorer than whites, while a limit on immigration from non-white countries until around the 1960s ensured that generally  educated and well-off Asians would be allowed to immigrate, yet many people completely ignore this or are unaware of it and try to compare blacks unforabourably to Asians.

Nope.

We're talking about groups who both came into the country with zero pennies in their pockets and no education. Still the x10 times discrepancy.

It doesn't matter very much which class of society the Chinese immigrants come from, they still don't commit violent crime in Western countrues.

OMG, why is it so hard to admit that a society's or a people's culture and values affect aggression and criminal behaviour?

False:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Ng