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Forums - Politics Discussion - So, Trump's ban on certain nationalities is in effect.

 

Your opinion on the ban

Good! 145 35.02%
 
Get rid of this as fast as possible. 200 48.31%
 
Needs more exceptions 25 6.04%
 
List needs to be redone 44 10.63%
 
Total:414
ratuscafoarterea on 29 January 2017
Peh said:
ratuscafoarterea said:

Any proof, or just BS talk? Also, it makes more sense for them to go there then USA.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-09-04/syria-s-refugees-feel-more-welcome-in-europe-than-in-the-gulf

There are 500,000 Syrians in Saudi Arabia, according to Nabil Othman, acting regional representative to the Gulf region at the UNHCR. In official documentation they are referred to as “Arab brothers and sisters in distress,” he said.

 

Also, I remind you to watch your tone. 

Good, in that case it onlymakes sense for Arab states to take more of their "brothers and sisters in distress,”

Also, I remind you that you have insulted me before and on this post, not me.



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Peh on 29 January 2017
ratuscafoarterea said:
Peh said:

First, I didn't call Trump a dictator. Care to proof me wrong.

 

Second, intepretation. Care to elaborate what the purpose was of saying that Trump has inside knowledge in contrast to us on this board other than shutting us up?

Yes you did, indirectly on your first reply to me when you’ve implied that I’m pandering for a dictator.

Second, go back on the comments feed, read and use logic.

 

No, I still didn't. I was generally speaking by your position. You bias seems to think that way. Well, that's entirely on you. I'm saying I didn't. Everything else is not relevant to me.

 

So, your elaboration is to say to go back and read and use logic. So, you can't state the opposite. 



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paulrage2 on 29 January 2017

Doing this Trump is saving lifes. The majority of Muslims don't like Christians, Womens and homossexual people.



Wiibaron on 29 January 2017

Funny how the word 'rights' get tossed around. People who aren't Americans don't have American 'rights'. If you have a Visa to come here, you were granted a priveledge to be here, not a right. And after you are checked, you will be let in. Really the way it is supposed to be all along. A man is doing exactly what he promised, and people are freaking out.



DarthMetalliCube on 29 January 2017
bdbdbd said:
palou said:

And it's absolutely ridiculous. Barring entry for EVERYONE regardless of context (with the excpetion of non-muslims persecuted for their religion)? This is just shitting on the rights of a ton of people! I know an Iranian national, currently living in Canada, who got a post-doc at MIT in mathematics, why block him entry into the country? Great way to make the whole region hate the US even more.

 

And the list doesn't even include any of the biggest terrorist hubs in the region! (Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Afghanistan) Most of the nations on the list haven't had any connection to any terrorist attacks in the US for the last 20 years or so (the only country that makes any sense at all would be Yemen.)

 

edit; So, it's confirmed that the person I know won't be able to enter the US, and thus just lost himself a post-doc at MIT (extremely important to his career.) Fuck Trump, no consideration whatsoever of how these decisions can ruin lives of normal individuals. Also Americans, without a doubt, considering that there has been a response banning of American citizens in some countries.

You know why it is done? It is because the terrorists are coming with the refugees. If nobody's in war with west, they'll start a civil war to have terrorists coming to west with the refugees. The only way to stop the terrorist coming, is to not to let them come to the country. Sucks for the people in actual need of help. This is also the way to finally have some peace in middle-east and Africa.

And, by seeing how racist USA obviously is after the Trump election, isn't it just better for them to not to enter such a racist country in the first place?

Sorry but do you live in the US? Highly doubt it. If you did you'd realize we're not only one of the most diverse countries on the planet, but also one of the most accepting of other cultures. I'm not saying there aren't some racist bad apples out there still - with a country of 300 million that's just going to be an inevitability - but there have been few other countries as tolerant and diverse as modern day America for other cultures to thrive in.. The current crisis our country faces comes from the massive wealth gap that keeps increasing between rich and poor, NOT from race/echnicity. I feel like some people act like America is still like it was in the 1850's sometimes when nothing could be further from the truth. 



 

"We hold these truths to be self-evident - all men and women created by the, go-you know.. you know the thing!" - Joe Biden

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Peh on 29 January 2017
ratuscafoarterea said:
Peh said:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-09-04/syria-s-refugees-feel-more-welcome-in-europe-than-in-the-gulf

There are 500,000 Syrians in Saudi Arabia, according to Nabil Othman, acting regional representative to the Gulf region at the UNHCR. In official documentation they are referred to as “Arab brothers and sisters in distress,” he said.

 

Also, I remind you to watch your tone. 

Good, in that case it onlymakes sense for Arab states to take more of their "brothers and sisters in distress,”

Also, I remind you that you have insulted me before and on this post, not me.

I didn't insulted you on purpose. I just replied to the position you are holding in that regard and you still didn't elaborate to think otherwise.



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paulrage2 on 29 January 2017
Wiibaron said:
Funny how the word 'rights' get tossed around. People who aren't Americans don't have American 'rights'. If you have a Visa to come here, you were granted a priveledge to be here, not a right. And after you are checked, you will be let in. Really the way it is supposed to be all along. A man is doing exactly what he promised, and people are freaking out.

I'm from Brazil, i live in Brazil and i totally agree.



NewGuy on 29 January 2017
foodfather said:
The ban needed to happen. 

But the fact that Afghanistan pakistan and saudi arabia are not on the list is a travesty. Trump is just as duplicitous as Clinton. A disappointment indeed.

List comes from the DHS, more countries may be added at a later date (or may not be necessary as this is a temp ban to give us time for an overhaul on the vetting process).

Vinther1991 said:
NewGuy said:

Are you Cenk Uyurk? Stop labeling everything as racist and let's have a discussion. You shouldn't be sickened by people who have a different point of view and should instead debate them. 

I don't know who Cenk Uyurk is, so no. Stop calling people names and let's have a discussion.

I don't see why I should censor my opinion. If I see something I consider racist, I'll call it that, and if a viewpoint sickens me I'll say that. The United Nations definition of racial discrimination is: "Any distinction, exclusion, restriction or preference based on race, colour, descent or national or ethnic origin which has the purpose or effect of nullifying or impairing the recognition, enjoyment or exercise, on an equal footing, of human rights and fundamental freedoms in the political, economic, social, cultural or any other field of public life." I think this law falls under that. So yes I'll call it a racist law, no matter how "political incorrect" you right-wingers think that term is.

NewGuy said:

There is nothing stopping this Danish politician from going (banned country) -> Denmark or random EU city -> US. He might even be able to go straight from (banned country) -> US given his danish citizenship.

It's not confirmed yet, but the initial message was that he cannot because he was born in Syria. What has been confirmed though is that a danish citizenship alone is not enough to be allowed entrance to the US, since people with double citizenships (like Syrian-Danish) are not allowed to enter the US.

NewGuy said:

I am for it because - as I mentioned above - those countries are all part of the Terrorist Travel Prevention Act from 2015 that the DHS deemed to be dangerous, terrorist haven countries. I don't know about you, but I don't want terrorists in my country, if possible. It is not unconstitutional and it is not a ban on muslims as it is a ban on 7 out of ~60 countries with a > 50% muslim population. Even if we say 7/50 countries, that's only 14%. Completely reasonable and I wish the  list was actually longer.

The visum rules for people from those countries are already really tough as you said. There is no need to make them tougher. There hasn't been a terrorist attack from people from these countries in America in over 20 years, so it's only hurting regular, innocent people.

Oh and btw, Americans are overrepresented in school shooting statistics, I don't want filthy school shooters in my countries. Maybe we should ban Americans from entering Denmark then?

Cenk Uyurk is the main guy from TYT internet channel who calls everything racist in order to not have to debate something on the basis of facts, which is what you did. Merriam webster defines racism as

1:  a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race

2a :  a doctrine or political program based on the assumption of racism and designed to execute its principles

b :  a political or social system founded on racism

3:  racial prejudice or discrimination

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/racism

Oxford dictionaries defines it as:

[mass noun] Prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior:

‘a programme to combat racism’

More example sentencesSynonyms

1.1 The belief that all members of each race possess characteristics, abilities, or qualities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races:

‘theories of racism’

https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/racism

A temporary ban of people from certain terrorist harboring countries is not racism by definition. The UN definition is flawed by default and implies that every country with borders and laws is racist because giving a job to a legaI citizen is showing preference over giving it to an illegal one. I actually did some research and see that you found that definition on wikipedia and not the UN's site of racism (which does not show that definition)

http://www.un.org/en/letsfightracism/pdfs/United%20against%20Racism_English_web.pdf

Wikipedia's source is this:

http://www.ohchr.org/EN/ProfessionalInterest/Pages/CERD.aspx which Part 1 Article 1 makes such a definition a bit more open to interpretation as far as state rights is concerned.

I prefer to use the definitions found in the english dictionary, which defies the one you prefer to use to fit your narrative. You can call it whatever you want though. I am not PC at all and don't care about feelings or offensive words, just facts. You are more likely to be offended if I refuse to use the pronoun "she" or "her" to describe a man who has performed surgery and become a transwoman or that BLM is/was a political ploy and ultimately promoted violence than I am to be offended by any of your rethoric.

I also never said the visa rules were tough enough so I'm not sure how you interpreted it that way. The fact that the DHS - under Obama - established that those are the countries deemed likely to harbor terrorist and we should be concerned about them leads me to believe that they have intel to make such a decision and an extreme vetting process is needed and a TEMPORARY ban on those countries is necessary so that we can develop a good, thorough process.

If Denmark wanted to install a ban on accepting american students due to the high shooting that happens in american schools compared to the rest of the world, it would be perfectly understandable to me even though said students wouldn't be able to migrate there with guns and their guns laws and lack of 2nd amendment rights would make it tougher for the american student to carry out said shooting at the school.



bdbdbd on 29 January 2017
DarthMetalliCube said:

Sorry but do you live in the US? Highly doubt it. If you did you'd realize we're not only one of the most diverse countries on the planet, but also one of the most accepting of other cultures. I'm not saying there aren't some racist bad apples out there still - with a country of 300 million that's just going to be an inevitability - but there have been few other countries as tolerant and diverse as modern day America for other cultures to thrive in.. The current crisis our country faces comes from the massive wealth gap that keeps increasing between rich and poor, NOT from race/echnicity. I feel like some people act like America is still like it was in the 1850's sometimes when nothing could be further from the truth. 

Hahaha. I just took a cheap shot on the idiots who actually seem to be thinking that all of a sudden the whole country is full of racist rednecks. If you follow the logic of the shocked media after Trump was elected, or the people who are posting everywhere in social media how everything Trump does is because of racism (or Putin said so), my comment is valid.

I'm actually one of the people who saw Trump election being a socioeconomic issue, whereas Clinton tried to ride on racism.



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Eikä Japanisti.

Vaan pannaan jalalla koreasti.

 

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ratuscafoarterea on 29 January 2017
Peh said:
ratuscafoarterea said:

Yes you did, indirectly on your first reply to me when you’ve implied that I’m pandering for a dictator.

Second, go back on the comments feed, read and use logic.

 

No, I still didn't. I was generally speaking by your position. You bias seems to think that way. Well, that's entirely on you. I'm saying I didn't. Everything else is not relevant to me.

 

So, your elaboration is to say to go back and read and use logic. So, you can't state the opposite. 

I just love how you lie. On you first reply to me on this post, you’ve said “You certainly are every dictarors favourite follower. They would be proud of you.” That right there proves my point.

Second, because you’re too lazy to actually go back and read the comments feed, I was talking to another guy explaining how he doesn’t work for Homeland Security, so how does he knows that the vet system is not broken? The replay came from another user pointing the fact that so do I don’t work for Homeland Security. My replay was, that’s right, but that doesn’t changes the fact that the POtUSA actually may have a better idea of how that works, then any of us on this forum. Got it?