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Rousseff impeachment. Any Brazilians over here?

Forums - Politics Discussion - Rousseff impeachment. Any Brazilians over here?

Strato said:
taikamya said:

Point ONE, not two, ONE thing I said was wrong.

Only one, and provide proof, please, as I did.

Also, are you a political scientist? My wife happens to be. I happen to have a master in sociology. Are you qualified at all in politics to say something like that?

Brazilian laws do not recognize as limit spending a crime. So you're being biased and spreading false information. Wether you like it or not, It's not a crime.

It should be, but it's not.

Now go back to offending people out of free will, its fun to see kids insulting others that just don't agree with them. Come on, bring it on.

Nonsense

Reiterating, you can just skip over taikamya's ignorance. He represents that 8% of the Brazilian population that approves Rousseff. No one here takes these people seriously, anymore

I never said I approved her government. I believe I said she was probably guilty of the charges she was facing, but she did not commit responsability crime, therefore the impeachment process is invalid. I remain right. I represent myself as I didn't vote for her, but yeah, go pointing fingers. Very mature. Also, can people stop saying things like "nonsense". Instead, prove me wrong! Come on, destroy me! I love a good debate, but saying that I'm wrong is not equal to me being wrong in the first place. You have to provide proof to back up your statement.

Nautilus said:
taikamya said:

I don't care what you care. I simply stated that I have regular discussions on the matter, some thing that you clearly doesn't. Also you insulting people speaks volume, literally, about you knowning "jackshit", which is what you know. You said yourself you don't know much about the situation, yet you call me ignorant.

You said I was ignorant, yet you just didn' argue about what I said with any proof. Also you have a problem with reading, when I sad religion was the problem, I said IMHO in the beginning of the sentence, clearly you don't know what that means. I spread no hatred, my wife is religious and so am I. But I don't believe that a democracy that is heavily based on religion can be a free one. Again, destroyed.

You go talk nonsense wherever you want, just know that you're wrong and spreading ignorance.

Ok, both of you enough.Even though I agree with Munchies that you were not being really helpful to the point in hand, that is to give a summary on the situation, and instead having this oportunity just bash the other political parties(and surprisingly say almost nothing about Dilmas own political party as if they had nothing to do with the situation), Munchies is also pushing the line here.

Please, lets be civil

And when wasn't I? I remain right. All the facts I described are right, and can be checked for reference. Be free to check-up anything that I said before the "IMHO, religion". I gave up my line of sight in my opinion, but the part above is not an opinion, are facts. Please be free to check them up and come back to me if I said anything wrong. I'll gladly correct them myself and apologize.

Vini256 said:

Brazilian here. Our government is a mess right now, and even if I read the news constantly, it's just too much to explain. Anyways, I think Dilma being impeached is a great thing. First off, the PT (Or "Worker's Party") has been in charge for 13 years, and their goverment sucks! Dilma tried to nominate Lula as a minister in order for him to stay away from investigations involving him, that's shady enough to validate her impeachment imo.

Btw, Temer is not the best thing ever, far from it, but at least he seems to know what he's doing. Dilma doesn't even know proper portuguese (Let alone english, lol), and makes a fool of herself at every speech she gives (Most of them become memes or go viral in some form).

Also, this keeps Brazil away from countries like Venezuela and Cuba, which have awful governments that should not be supported in any way (Really sad for you guys in Venezuela btw, I hope you get free from Maduro soon).

I don't see how Dilma's impeachment is a good thing. For one, its a coup. That's never a good thing. Yes, the PT government sucks, what else is new?

Dilma trying to nominate Lula was just plain stupid. Thank God the supreme court didn't allow this to happen.

However, "Temer is not the best thing" is a gentle statement. Temer and Renan, aswell as Cunha and some ministers of his have already been found guilty of many corruption charges. You're being to kind to a man that is 10 times worse than Rousseff herself, and keep in mind that she is pretty bad indeed.

Also, what's wrong with Cuba? The US seems to find it very appealing for business and Brazil should too, of course this is not all good or bad, but it's not a demonic thing as people usually think it is.



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Last edited by OttoniBastos - on 26 July 2018

taikamya said:

No, she did not. She has been accused. Nothing has been proved. This is not the Soviet Union, people are not guilty until proof is provided.

You do know guilty untill innocence is proven is starting to become a rule everywhere unfortunatly. It has never been something Soviet.



taikamya said:
Strato said:

Nonsense

Reiterating, you can just skip over taikamya's ignorance. He represents that 8% of the Brazilian population that approves Rousseff. No one here takes these people seriously, anymore

I never said I approved her government. I believe I said she was probably guilty of the charges she was facing, but she did not commit responsability crime, therefore the impeachment process is invalid. I remain right. I represent myself as I didn't vote for her, but yeah, go pointing fingers. Very mature. Also, can people stop saying things like "nonsense". Instead, prove me wrong! Come on, destroy me! I love a good debate, but saying that I'm wrong is not equal to me being wrong in the first place. You have to provide proof to back up your statement.

Nautilus said:

Ok, both of you enough.Even though I agree with Munchies that you were not being really helpful to the point in hand, that is to give a summary on the situation, and instead having this oportunity just bash the other political parties(and surprisingly say almost nothing about Dilmas own political party as if they had nothing to do with the situation), Munchies is also pushing the line here.

Please, lets be civil

And when wasn't I? I remain right. All the facts I described are right, and can be checked for reference. Be free to check-up anything that I said before the "IMHO, religion". I gave up my line of sight in my opinion, but the part above is not an opinion, are facts. Please be free to check them up and come back to me if I said anything wrong. I'll gladly correct them myself and apologize.

Vini256 said:

Brazilian here. Our government is a mess right now, and even if I read the news constantly, it's just too much to explain. Anyways, I think Dilma being impeached is a great thing. First off, the PT (Or "Worker's Party") has been in charge for 13 years, and their goverment sucks! Dilma tried to nominate Lula as a minister in order for him to stay away from investigations involving him, that's shady enough to validate her impeachment imo.

Btw, Temer is not the best thing ever, far from it, but at least he seems to know what he's doing. Dilma doesn't even know proper portuguese (Let alone english, lol), and makes a fool of herself at every speech she gives (Most of them become memes or go viral in some form).

Also, this keeps Brazil away from countries like Venezuela and Cuba, which have awful governments that should not be supported in any way (Really sad for you guys in Venezuela btw, I hope you get free from Maduro soon).

I don't see how Dilma's impeachment is a good thing. For one, its a coup. That's never a good thing. Yes, the PT government sucks, what else is new?

Dilma trying to nominate Lula was just plain stupid. Thank God the supreme court didn't allow this to happen.

However, "Temer is not the best thing" is a gentle statement. Temer and Renan, aswell as Cunha and some ministers of his have already been found guilty of many corruption charges. You're being to kind to a man that is 10 times worse than Rousseff herself, and keep in mind that she is pretty bad indeed.

Also, what's wrong with Cuba? The US seems to find it very appealing for business and Brazil should too, of course this is not all good or bad, but it's not a demonic thing as people usually think it is.

First of all, Dilma is guilty of responsability crimes.It is in the laws.After all, thats why the impeachment went through.Not to mention that the pedaladas is a crime, as even you admited she did it.So if its a crime, and if she did it, then she is guilty for it.Simple as that.Other funny thing that you said is that Temer is worse than Dilma.I mean, I agree that he is not the best candidate by far, but how can he be worse than a government that got Brazil to the condition that it is now?(Inflation, unenployment, corruption, and so on).Not to mention that any of Temer acusation has been proven true, and yet you say that he is worse than Dilma a woman that not only has as much charges as he has if not more, but has also been taken away from her duties(in another words, been found guilty from the crimes so far).And for her is all "speculation"?I see a bit of double standards here.

Even if the next government makes not much better than dilmas government, the impeachment is a good thing.First, because its not a coup.Its in the constitution, as far as I know it.Second and most important is that if she is responsible for those crimes( and we have already passed the IF point), she should be made accountable for it.This kind of thinking "But the other ones are worse!So lets just stick to the ones that dont suck as much" is what makes some countries so bad to live in, because you never strive for the best, and just be contempted for what you have.



OttoniBastos said:
mai said:

I've got few questions to ask residents of the Brazil.

- What is deal about Rousseff impeachment? Why now? What are the reasons behind this?¹

- Waldir Maranhao, Renan Calheiros, Michel Temer etc. Who are these people? I mean what their interest in the situation?²

- How this will end up, your thoughts? What consequences are to be expected?³

Thanks.

¹There is more then one reason for why this happenned.

 - Dilma won last elections by like ~51%,which means that barely half of the population didn't want her and were unhappy with the results.

- Less than a year after her re-election an economical crisis starts(Which affected everyone including the poor people which are the main demographic that voted on Dilma)

- The Curruption in brazillian goverment is huge right now(to be fair it always was but with the crisis,people lost their patience).

- The rival parties took this political enviroment as an opportunity to launch a campaign to completely destroy Dilma's public image(with the help of our fox new's equivalent "Globo" and the social media)

- Because of the crisis dilma also started making cuts in education,health and even social programs like "bolsa familia" which were her goverment's main archievements.

- People from her side started jumping ship and allign with the opposition to stay in power.

²Michel Temer is the vice president and the one in charge now that the impeachment happened,Renan calheiros is the president of the senate and waldir maranhão is the temporary president of the chamber of deputies.Here in brazil we have multiples parties which may allign with each other depending of the political scenario.Temer is from the PMDB which was allign with Dilma's PT to the point that Dilma offered the VP to him.Now with the crisis Temer went full Frank Underwood and now he is the President of our country.

³I believe the crisis will slow down and Dilma will hardly get back to power(people really hate her).Next elections will be interesting though...

Very accurate. Just some things you didn't mention.

1) Dilma won with 51% because the opposition candidate had all of the other parties in his pocket. In the second leg of the elections, almost all neutral parties sided with the opposition candidate, giving them an enormous boost. Otherwise she would have won by a larger margin.

2) Corruption in Brazil was big since I was born, in the middle of the military dictatorship, and my grandfather used to say that Brazil was the most corrupt country in the world, and he was from the 1910's. So, go figure that!

3) The economical crisis had been with Brazil for a long time, since the end of Lulas presidency. Just take for instance, Brazil 2006 GDP was up by 7.5%, and was one of the fastest growing economies in the world. Not just that, but it was so sustainable, that Forbes in 2009 made a cover saying that "Brazil took off". However, since 2012, the GDP was growing at a steady 2 to 3%, whilst in 2014 grow up only by 1%. Brazils biggest supporters and buyers are still in big crisis themselves, China and England alike. It's not fair nor accurate to say that the economical crisis begin last year. Just because Brazil wasn't down in 5% recession as was Portugal or Spain, it doesn't mean that the crisis didn't exist.



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Nautilus said:
taikamya said:

I never said I approved her government. I believe I said she was probably guilty of the charges she was facing, but she did not commit responsability crime, therefore the impeachment process is invalid. I remain right. I represent myself as I didn't vote for her, but yeah, go pointing fingers. Very mature. Also, can people stop saying things like "nonsense". Instead, prove me wrong! Come on, destroy me! I love a good debate, but saying that I'm wrong is not equal to me being wrong in the first place. You have to provide proof to back up your statement.

And when wasn't I? I remain right. All the facts I described are right, and can be checked for reference. Be free to check-up anything that I said before the "IMHO, religion". I gave up my line of sight in my opinion, but the part above is not an opinion, are facts. Please be free to check them up and come back to me if I said anything wrong. I'll gladly correct them myself and apologize.

I don't see how Dilma's impeachment is a good thing. For one, its a coup. That's never a good thing. Yes, the PT government sucks, what else is new?

Dilma trying to nominate Lula was just plain stupid. Thank God the supreme court didn't allow this to happen.

However, "Temer is not the best thing" is a gentle statement. Temer and Renan, aswell as Cunha and some ministers of his have already been found guilty of many corruption charges. You're being to kind to a man that is 10 times worse than Rousseff herself, and keep in mind that she is pretty bad indeed.

Also, what's wrong with Cuba? The US seems to find it very appealing for business and Brazil should too, of course this is not all good or bad, but it's not a demonic thing as people usually think it is.

First of all, Dilma is guilty of responsability crimes.It is in the laws.After all, thats why the impeachment went through.Not to mention that the pedaladas is a crime, as even you admited she did it.So if its a crime, and if she did it, then she is guilty for it.Simple as that.Other funny thing that you said is that Temer is worse than Dilma.I mean, I agree that he is not the best candidate by far, but how can he be worse than a government that got Brazil to the condition that it is now?(Inflation, unenployment, corruption, and so on).Not to mention that any of Temer acusation has been proven true, and yet you say that he is worse than Dilma a woman that not only has as much charges as he has if not more, but has also been taken away from her duties(in another words, been found guilty from the crimes so far).And for her is all "speculation"?I see a bit of double standards here.

Even if the next government makes not much better than dilmas government, the impeachment is a good thing.First, because its not a coup.Its in the constitution, as far as I know it.Second and most important is that if she is responsible for those crimes( and we have already passed the IF point), she should be made accountable for it.This kind of thinking "But the other ones are worse!So lets just stick to the ones that dont suck as much" is what makes some countries so bad to live in, because you never strive for the best, and just be contempted for what you have.

Yes, I think she commited it, but it's not a crime. Yes, it's in the law, but again, the law is clear and the pedaladas is not a crime. If we are to judge that the pedaladas are a reason for impeachment, 11 governors and many mayors have to be impeached too. Not just that, but Lula and FHC should had been aswell, so this logical reasioning is anything but logical.

Also, Temer as already been found guilty, Dilma has not. I can say that Temer is corrupt, I cannot say  that about Dilma, I said in my original post, I think she probably is. I cannot and will not judge a person without proof. Cunha has been proven, Renan has, Temer has, Maranhão has, Lula has, Dilma hasn't. Based on the linear logic, I can say she probably is, but I'll hold that claim until it's been proven.

Also, in Brazils defence, we don't have a "best" to strive for. The best would be to end this political system and create a new one. However, who's going to? PMDB? PSDB? PT? If so, no good can come of it.



taikamya said:
Nautilus said:

First of all, Dilma is guilty of responsability crimes.It is in the laws.After all, thats why the impeachment went through.Not to mention that the pedaladas is a crime, as even you admited she did it.So if its a crime, and if she did it, then she is guilty for it.Simple as that.Other funny thing that you said is that Temer is worse than Dilma.I mean, I agree that he is not the best candidate by far, but how can he be worse than a government that got Brazil to the condition that it is now?(Inflation, unenployment, corruption, and so on).Not to mention that any of Temer acusation has been proven true, and yet you say that he is worse than Dilma a woman that not only has as much charges as he has if not more, but has also been taken away from her duties(in another words, been found guilty from the crimes so far).And for her is all "speculation"?I see a bit of double standards here.

Even if the next government makes not much better than dilmas government, the impeachment is a good thing.First, because its not a coup.Its in the constitution, as far as I know it.Second and most important is that if she is responsible for those crimes( and we have already passed the IF point), she should be made accountable for it.This kind of thinking "But the other ones are worse!So lets just stick to the ones that dont suck as much" is what makes some countries so bad to live in, because you never strive for the best, and just be contempted for what you have.

Yes, I think she commited it, but it's not a crime. Yes, it's in the law, but again, the law is clear and the pedaladas is not a crime. If we are to judge that the pedaladas are a reason for impeachment, 11 governors and many mayors have to be impeached too. Not just that, but Lula and FHC should had been aswell, so this logical reasioning is anything but logical.

Also, Temer as already been found guilty, Dilma has not. I can say that Temer is corrupt, I cannot say  that about Dilma, I said in my original post, I think she probably is. I cannot and will not judge a person without proof. Cunha has been proven, Renan has, Temer has, Maranhão has, Lula has, Dilma hasn't. Based on the linear logic, I can say she probably is, but I'll hold that claim until it's been proven.

Also, in Brazils defence, we don't have a "best" to strive for. The best would be to end this political system and create a new one. However, who's going to? PMDB? PSDB? PT? If so, no good can come of it.

If thats true, and Im taking your words for it, then yes, those persons, those 11 governors and the other presidents should have suffered impeachment.Just goes to show how low Brazil has come.But thats not a justification for Dilma not to suffer one.I mean, she has commited a crime.But you are going to justify that she should walk away free because others have done the same and suffered nothing?Is the world back to childhood, that when you do something wrong, you could do it just because everyone does?So I mean, by that logic corruption should not be considered a crime, since everyone does it right?.....

Dilma has already been taken away from her job, by a process that is supported by the constitution.Conspiracy theories aside, she was already found guilty of those said crimes, or at the very least has some responsability for those said crimes.There is not probably there.

And really, as a citizen, thats your answer?That you dont have a best to strive for?I mean, I know the situation there is critical to say the least, but if you go on saying things about who is right or wrong, but you go on and basically you admit that you gave up on the country and is fine with the (im sorry for the word) shit that is happening there, I can only feel sorry for you.You dont need to overhaul everything at once.Take baby steps.Fix things one at a time.Things dont change from night to day.From what I read, even if you make all the correct decisions, it is going to take years to fiy Brazil problems, and even then there will still be many work to be done.With your line of thinking, any country would never improve



Nautilus said:
taikamya said:

Yes, I think she commited it, but it's not a crime. Yes, it's in the law, but again, the law is clear and the pedaladas is not a crime. If we are to judge that the pedaladas are a reason for impeachment, 11 governors and many mayors have to be impeached too. Not just that, but Lula and FHC should had been aswell, so this logical reasioning is anything but logical.

Also, Temer as already been found guilty, Dilma has not. I can say that Temer is corrupt, I cannot say  that about Dilma, I said in my original post, I think she probably is. I cannot and will not judge a person without proof. Cunha has been proven, Renan has, Temer has, Maranhão has, Lula has, Dilma hasn't. Based on the linear logic, I can say she probably is, but I'll hold that claim until it's been proven.

Also, in Brazils defence, we don't have a "best" to strive for. The best would be to end this political system and create a new one. However, who's going to? PMDB? PSDB? PT? If so, no good can come of it.

If thats true, and Im taking your words for it, then yes, those persons, those 11 governors and the other presidents should have suffered impeachment.Just goes to show how low Brazil has come.But thats not a justification for Dilma not to suffer one.I mean, she has commited a crime.But you are going to justify that she should walk away free because others have done the same and suffered nothing?Is the world back to childhood, that when you do something wrong, you could do it just because everyone does?So I mean, by that logic corruption should not be considered a crime, since everyone does it right?.....

Dilma has already been taken away from her job, by a process that is supported by the constitution.Conspiracy theories aside, she was already found guilty of those said crimes, or at the very least has some responsability for those said crimes.There is not probably there.

And really, as a citizen, thats your answer?That you dont have a best to strive for?I mean, I know the situation there is critical to say the least, but if you go on saying things about who is right or wrong, but you go on and basically you admit that you gave up on the country and is fine with the (im sorry for the word) shit that is happening there, I can only feel sorry for you.You dont need to overhaul everything at once.Take baby steps.Fix things one at a time.Things dont change from night to day.From what I read, even if you make all the correct decisions, it is going to take years to fiy Brazil problems, and even then there will still be many work to be done.With your line of thinking, any country would never improve

Nop. The impeachment process was open, they're still judging her. She wasn't found guilty of anything. Yet. They have 180 days to do so, but Dilma have yet not been impeached.

Also, don't take my word for it. Go take a look, make a search. In my original post I throw in some videos that although superficial, have a nice range of information. I'll gladly take back any wrong facts, if there's any.

Back to where it matters, Temer is not the official president yet and the nomimation will happen if Dilma gets impeached, that can happen any day now.

If this is the case, then the situation will not change, not only that but the Temer has already extinguished the CGU which was the organ that investigated corruption in public domains. Not only that, but as off today, 05/16, Temer just said on TV that the LavaJato(car wash, in english) operation cost so much money, they'll cut it in half. The Lava Jato was the operation that was putting corrupt politics in jail. Cunha, Renan and Maranhão have been mentioned in this scandal, as former president Lula also have. So yeah, I'm pretty sure this new government isn't going to fix anything up, in fact, they're ending the corruption battle all at once.

Brazil need at least 40 years with good presidents, to at least get back on track and I don't see that happening. Brazil had 388 years of slavery, from 1500 to 1888. Brazil has a 28 year old democracy, and as I stated in my original post, most of the politicians that were in power in the military dictatorship are still in office within PMDB. Most famous one is Maluf who is even a wanted criminal at the Interpol website and Sarney. Not just that but the last impeached president, Collor, is a senator! Brazil politics borders the absurd. As I said in my original post, I could go on to write another 50 absurd facts about Brazil politics, but its not needed.

This is how absurd it gets.



taikamya said:
Nautilus said:

If thats true, and Im taking your words for it, then yes, those persons, those 11 governors and the other presidents should have suffered impeachment.Just goes to show how low Brazil has come.But thats not a justification for Dilma not to suffer one.I mean, she has commited a crime.But you are going to justify that she should walk away free because others have done the same and suffered nothing?Is the world back to childhood, that when you do something wrong, you could do it just because everyone does?So I mean, by that logic corruption should not be considered a crime, since everyone does it right?.....

Dilma has already been taken away from her job, by a process that is supported by the constitution.Conspiracy theories aside, she was already found guilty of those said crimes, or at the very least has some responsability for those said crimes.There is not probably there.

And really, as a citizen, thats your answer?That you dont have a best to strive for?I mean, I know the situation there is critical to say the least, but if you go on saying things about who is right or wrong, but you go on and basically you admit that you gave up on the country and is fine with the (im sorry for the word) shit that is happening there, I can only feel sorry for you.You dont need to overhaul everything at once.Take baby steps.Fix things one at a time.Things dont change from night to day.From what I read, even if you make all the correct decisions, it is going to take years to fiy Brazil problems, and even then there will still be many work to be done.With your line of thinking, any country would never improve

Nop. The impeachment process was open, they're still judging her. She wasn't found guilty of anything. Yet. They have 180 days to do so, but Dilma have yet not been impeached.

Also, don't take my word for it. Go take a look, make a search. In my original post I throw in some videos that although superficial, have a nice range of information. I'll gladly take back any wrong facts, if there's any.

Back to where it matters, Temer is not the official president yet and the nomimation will happen if Dilma gets impeached, that can happen any day now.

If this is the case, then the situation will not change, not only that but the Temer has already extinguished the CGU which was the organ that investigated corruption in public domains. Not only that, but as off today, 05/16, Temer just said on TV that the LavaJato(car wash, in english) operation cost so much money, they'll cut it in half. The Lava Jato was the operation that was putting corrupt politics in jail. Cunha, Renan and Maranhão have been mentioned in this scandal, as former president Lula also have. So yeah, I'm pretty sure this new government isn't going to fix anything up, in fact, they're ending the corruption battle all at once.

Brazil need at least 40 years with good presidents, to at least get back on track and I don't see that happening. Brazil had 388 years of slavery, from 1500 to 1888. Brazil has a 28 year old democracy, and as I stated in my original post, most of the politicians that were in power in the military dictatorship are still in office within PMDB. Most famous one is Maluf who is even a wanted criminal at the Interpol website and Sarney. Not just that but the last impeached president, Collor, is a senator! Brazil politics borders the absurd. As I said in my original post, I could go on to write another 50 absurd facts about Brazil politics, but its not needed.

This is how absurd it gets.

Australia was originally just a giant prison, where criminals and prisoners from Britain were sent.Now look how good the country is.It may take 20 or 40 years to get Brazil back on track, but if you simply give up and dont try anything it will keep being the shitty country it is today.If you think Temer will make bad decisions, then make pressure, the same way people made pressure for the leave of Dilma from the government.Make the politicians work for you, as they were meant to be.It just pisses me alot see people complain about the situation they are in, how sucky it is, but then do nothing and just accepts it as normal



taikamya said:

Yes, I think she commited it, but it's not a crime. Yes, it's in the law, but again, the law is clear and the pedaladas is not a crime. If we are to judge that the pedaladas are a reason for impeachment, 11 governors and many mayors have to be impeached too. Not just that, but Lula and FHC should had been aswell, so this logical reasioning is anything but logical.

Nope. It's a simple question. There's a HUGE difference between Rousseff and former presidents. None of the previous has made such a - brutal - fiscal deficit in their government, the graphics don't lie (here and here)