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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - the Wii U is not getting replaced this year, guys

Thunderbird77 on 21 January 2016
Miyamotoo said:
Thunderbird77 said:

It's a Wii U game.

Maybe you didn't notice, but the wii mote + nunchuck lack several buttons from a standard controller, relying on motion controls to cover some imputs. Of course the wii controls can't be used for gc games, and since nintendo used a standard controller on wii u (the gamepad), It lacked the ability to use motion controls in the same way as wiimote and nunchuck. Now, even if the next controller doesn't have a screen (although it probably will), it just needs the buttons and basic gyro to be compatible with any wii u game that doesn't require the screen (seems to be the case for Zelda U).

Now, do you really think the next controller will remove buttons from the standard, like the wiimote and nunchuck?

Technically, it is release on NX in same time like on Wii U, practically becomes NX games too.

So why for instance I cant use Wii U gamepad for Wii games that can be played whitout motion controls!?

I really don't know what to think what exactly NX controller could be. But my point stands, you need Wii controllers for every Wii game on Wii U, even for those that can be played without motion controls.

But like already wrote before, type of controllers are not important in matter of will Nintendo port Zelda U for NX. I have so many reasons why Nintendo will do that and make it like NX launch title, and you didn't have one single reason why they will not do that.

Probably becuase most wii games are unplayable with the gamepad. Adding compatibility that only works with a few games would be pointless. Meanwhile, few wii u games absolutely require the touchscreen.

There is no reason for them to port the game.



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PerturbedKitty on 21 January 2016
Shiken said:
PerturbedKitty said:

bolded: lol ok. 

but anyway, back to arguing. you mention "current gen only" releases that cant be done on ps3 or 360. but i have to ask.. like what? any game that is only on ps4 can be done on ps3 at a lower framerate. games like MGSV prove that. off the top of my head, that is the most ambitious game i can think of that came out last year, and even that was accomplished on the PS3. the only substantial difference between the two versions is that the PS3's framerate is shit. 

dont get me wrong, the PS4 is a next gen console. those features that you listed for PS4 are characteristics of generation 8 hardware. all i was saying is that in certain ways, i can certainly see the PS4 as a console that is stuck in the 7th generation. and i would only bring something like that up when people make some kind of nonsensical argument about the Wii U being mid gen, or a 7th gen console, because its just ridiculous.

 

 


It would not be just a lower frame rate for games like The Witcher, Bloodborne  (use Dark Souls 2 as comparison), Dying Light (7th gen was cut due to them not being able to run the game without MAJOR sacrifices), Driveclub (the visual fidelity of this game could not be sustained at any framerate on last gen), Horizon Zero Dawn (if this game looks like what what have seen and is open world to boot...yeah not happening on PS3), Uncharted 4 (same as Horizon) just to name a few.

 

The problem with your logic is that it does not take into consideration processing for AI, various visual affects and artifacts outside of resolution, processing for physics, draw distance, etc.  The difference us pretty big and your argument is making it out like 7 fps is playable and acceptable.  Fact is they would have to dumb down a lot more than just frame rate and resolution which at that point, while looking similar in the outside) would result in a totally different game.

 

Here is an example, Final Fantasy 14 is available on PS3.  Most of the game is playable, but the endgame content with big raids and multiple players fighting at once IS NOT.  I have lost out on Boss fights in that version because so many peoplr were attacking at once that not only did half of them not show on my screen, half of the enemies and THE BOSS ITSELF wouldn't show either.  When I upgraded to the PS4 version, everything was flawless.  None of the problems from the PS3 followed and it looked sharper to boot.  It literally went from unplayable to working perfectly.  THAT is the difference between last gen and current gen.

 

The WiiU is only slightly more powerful than the PS3 or 360, no where near the PS4 or X1.  Games that are designed for PS4 and X1 could not be done on the WiiU without major drawbacks, not just framerate.  However ANY game on WiiU could work on the other two minus the game pad (unless you have a Vita and you use the second screen function, which can also be done with a smart phone).  This is why people classify the WiiU as a gen behind in tech.

 

I get it, you like your WiiU.  It is a good console FOR WHAT IT IS.  Don't let that blind you to the facts though.  The cross gen releases speak nothing of the difference between 7th and 8th gen.  The only thing it shows is how much devs are holding back just to squeeze a few more sales out of last gen (same thing will happen with the next gen I am sure).  That is one thing I can say Nintendo does right though.  When they do move up a gen, they do it fully and focus on what their next console will offer without worrying about the previous for the most part minus a few games like Twilight Princess for example.  They actually move forward with what they have.  This however does not change the fact that the PS4 and X1 offer more behind the scenes than just framerate and resolution.

i can accept most of what you say about games that cant work on the PS3 but can on the PS4. that is fine. what i have bolded here i think is the most important part of the whole discussion though. im fine if people want to classify the wii u as a generation behind in tech. i have no problem with it at all. but that doesnt mean its not an 8th generation console. ill reiterate the (most important) point that i was trying to get across and say that i think the ps4 and x1 are a generation behind in their ideas in general. from generation 6 to 7, i feel like we saw a great expansion in developers' ideas on all three platforms. this generation, i feel like it is a lot more stagnant. i do want to point out that im not totally leaving wii u out in this regard either. DKC tropical freeze, mario party 10, super mario 3d world are also games that i feel are guilty of this. 

what you were focusing on here mainly is my claim about all ps4 games being able to be done on ps3 but at a lower framerate. sure, that may not always be true, especially with these newer games like horizon. and ill just go ahead and admit that i was mistaken ALTHOUGH it is quite annoying to see games CONSTANTLY being released that dont take advantage of the hardware. it puts a bitter taste in my mouth about what do the PS4 and X1 honestly offer that their previous gen counterparts do not? again, ill take back what i said, but understand my frustration here. 

ill leave with this last thought. if every platform utilized the hardware to its maximum potential the great majority of the time, then i feel like generation 8 would have a lot more of a defining character and you really would be able to say, yes, these consoles are clearly generation 8 and cannot be replicated on any console from the previous generation. 





Danman27 on 21 January 2016

Yeah, they're still selling for $300 and getting piss poor sales. That's not a very good defense.



Thunderbird77 on 21 January 2016
Shiken said:

 


It would not be just a lower frame rate for games like The Witcher, Bloodborne  (use Dark Souls 2 as comparison), Dying Light (7th gen was cut due to them not being able to run the game without MAJOR sacrifices), Driveclub (the visual fidelity of this game could not be sustained at any framerate on last gen), Horizon Zero Dawn (if this game looks like what what have seen and is open world to boot...yeah not happening on PS3), Uncharted 4 (same as Horizon) just to name a few.

 

The problem with your logic is that it does not take into consideration processing for AI, various visual affects and artifacts outside of resolution, processing for physics, draw distance, etc.  The difference us pretty big and your argument is making it out like 7 fps is playable and acceptable.  Fact is they would have to dumb down a lot more than just frame rate and resolution which at that point, while looking similar in the outside) would result in a totally different game.

 

Here is an example, Final Fantasy 14 is available on PS3.  Most of the game is playable, but the endgame content with big raids and multiple players fighting at once IS NOT.  I have lost out on Boss fights in that version because so many peoplr were attacking at once that not only did half of them not show on my screen, half of the enemies and THE BOSS ITSELF wouldn't show either.  When I upgraded to the PS4 version, everything was flawless.  None of the problems from the PS3 followed and it looked sharper to boot.  It literally went from unplayable to working perfectly.  THAT is the difference between last gen and current gen.

 

The WiiU is only slightly more powerful than the PS3 or 360, no where near the PS4 or X1.  Games that are designed for PS4 and X1 could not be done on the WiiU without major drawbacks, not just framerate.  However ANY game on WiiU could work on the other two minus the game pad (unless you have a Vita and you use the second screen function, which can also be done with a smart phone).  This is why people classify the WiiU as a gen behind in tech.

 

I get it, you like your WiiU.  It is a good console FOR WHAT IT IS.  Don't let that blind you to the facts though.  The cross gen releases speak nothing of the difference between 7th and 8th gen.  The only thing it shows is how much devs are holding back just to squeeze a few more sales out of last gen (same thing will happen with the next gen I am sure).  That is one thing I can say Nintendo does right though.  When they do move up a gen, they do it fully and focus on what their next console will offer without worrying about the previous for the most part minus a few games like Twilight Princess for example.  They actually move forward with what they have.  This however does not change the fact that the PS4 and X1 offer more behind the scenes than just framerate and resolution.

Oh, how wrong you are.





bigtakilla on 21 January 2016
Miyamotoo said:
Thunderbird77 said:
Miyamotoo said:
Thunderbird77 said:

But it won't be a brand new Zelda for a new console if it's ported, it will still be a brand new Zelda for an old console. Whatever you want to believe, I'm tired. Oh, nintendo said wii u's successor would absorb wii u's architeture somehow.

It will be brand new Zelda because it will be launched in same time on NX and Wii U, it will be brand new console Zelda on NX and WiiU, fact that technically is a Wii U game doesn't change anything, and practically will be more NX game than Wii U because it will have much longer life and sales on NX than on Wii U, same like Wii TP Zelda.

They said that, but we dont know in what way. Also you claiming that Wii U games will be playable with NX controller but reality is that you needed GC controller in order to play GC games on Wii and you need Wii controllers in order to play Wii games on Wii U.

It's a Wii U game.

Maybe you didn't notice, but the wii mote + nunchuck lack several buttons from a standard controller, relying on motion controls to cover some imputs. Of course the wii controls can't be used for gc games, and since nintendo used a standard controller on wii u (the gamepad), It lacked the ability to use motion controls in the same way as wiimote and nunchuck. Now, even if the next controller doesn't have a screen (although it probably will), it just needs the buttons and basic gyro to be compatible with any wii u game that doesn't require the screen (seems to be the case for Zelda U).

Now, do you really think the next controller will remove buttons from the standard, like the wiimote and nunchuck?

Technically, it is release on NX in same time like on Wii U, practically becomes NX games too.

So why for instance I cant use Wii U gamepad for Wii games that can be played whitout motion controls!?

I really don't know what to think what exactly NX controller could be. But my point stands, you need Wii controllers for every Wii game on Wii U, even for those that can be played without motion controls.

But like already wrote before, type of controllers are not important in matter of will Nintendo port Zelda U for NX. I have so many reasons why Nintendo will do that and make it like NX launch title, and you didn't have one single reason why they will not do that.

 

There's no reason all games ever should not release on every platforn that proceeds it, doesn't mean it's going to happen.



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Miyamotoo on 22 January 2016
bigtakilla said:
Miyamotoo said:
Thunderbird77 said:
Miyamotoo said:
Thunderbird77 said:

But it won't be a brand new Zelda for a new console if it's ported, it will still be a brand new Zelda for an old console. Whatever you want to believe, I'm tired. Oh, nintendo said wii u's successor would absorb wii u's architeture somehow.

It will be brand new Zelda because it will be launched in same time on NX and Wii U, it will be brand new console Zelda on NX and WiiU, fact that technically is a Wii U game doesn't change anything, and practically will be more NX game than Wii U because it will have much longer life and sales on NX than on Wii U, same like Wii TP Zelda.

They said that, but we dont know in what way. Also you claiming that Wii U games will be playable with NX controller but reality is that you needed GC controller in order to play GC games on Wii and you need Wii controllers in order to play Wii games on Wii U.

It's a Wii U game.

Maybe you didn't notice, but the wii mote + nunchuck lack several buttons from a standard controller, relying on motion controls to cover some imputs. Of course the wii controls can't be used for gc games, and since nintendo used a standard controller on wii u (the gamepad), It lacked the ability to use motion controls in the same way as wiimote and nunchuck. Now, even if the next controller doesn't have a screen (although it probably will), it just needs the buttons and basic gyro to be compatible with any wii u game that doesn't require the screen (seems to be the case for Zelda U).

Now, do you really think the next controller will remove buttons from the standard, like the wiimote and nunchuck?

Technically, it is release on NX in same time like on Wii U, practically becomes NX games too.

So why for instance I cant use Wii U gamepad for Wii games that can be played whitout motion controls!?

I really don't know what to think what exactly NX controller could be. But my point stands, you need Wii controllers for every Wii game on Wii U, even for those that can be played without motion controls.

But like already wrote before, type of controllers are not important in matter of will Nintendo port Zelda U for NX. I have so many reasons why Nintendo will do that and make it like NX launch title, and you didn't have one single reason why they will not do that.

 

There's no reason all games ever should not release on every platforn that proceeds it, doesn't mean it's going to happen.

We talked about if Nintendo will make Zelda U like launch title for NX. I think that is almost certain and the whole situation is very similar to TP situation.

I will just copy what I already wrote:

Point is If you make Zelda U NX game too and launch it with NX, use it to promote NX and reverse use NX to promote game, you will definitely have much stronger sales of game than if it's Wii U exclusive. No to mentione being NX launch title very help launch. Its common business sense, basically you have only positive staffs making Zelda U port like NX launch title, you dont have any negative staffs.

Also we already saw this gen how Nintendo promote big games months after launch, do you really think Nintendo would promote Wii U game on release, or maybe relase some sort of DLC months after launch when Wii U already will very dead and whole focus will be on new platform!? Do you really think that for 3 years for now Wii U version of game would sell better, or NX version of game would sell better!? What if Nintendo in some point decide to bundle Zelda U, do you think they will bundle Wii U game with NX!?

Porting of game would cost only few milon's, Nintendo would cover the cost of port basically with around 100k copies more sold with NX port, but reality is that making Zelda U NX launch title would sold few millions more copies than just Wii U version.



oMahly on 22 January 2016

Nintendo said that the NX will not replace Wii U so..........



-Mahly

bigtakilla on 22 January 2016
oMahly said:

Nintendo said that the NX will not replace Wii U so..........

 


A fact mentioned over and over again that people seem to "forget".



Soundwave on 22 January 2016

I think that point is that NX is not "Wii U-2", as in a direct continuation of an obvious failure of a console line.

This is the same thing they said about the DS ... it wasn't a "replacement" for the GBA ... except ... it basically was.

It just means NX will have a different hardware philosophy from the Wii U, and as such is not a direct successor because there will never be a successor to the Wii U in a direct sense as it's a failure.

NX IS their next-generation game platform(s), it's just not Wii U-2 and 3DS-2. 



Miyamotoo on 22 January 2016
Soundwave said:

I think that point is that NX is not "Wii U-2", as in a direct continuation of an obvious failure of a console line.

This is the same thing they said about the DS ... it wasn't a "replacement" for the GBA ... except ... it basically was.

It just means NX will have a different hardware philosophy from the Wii U, and as such is not a direct successor because there will never be a successor to the Wii U in a direct sense as it's a failure.

NX IS their next-generation game platform(s), it's just not Wii U-2 and 3DS-2. 

Its not only about hardware philosophy, it also about OS philosophy, software development philosophy, and different philosophy from handheld game runs on handheld only and home console game runs on home console only. NX platform will incluede all tha.

This will probably be one of the biggest change for Nintendo in generations.