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Is Faith Reasonable?

Yes 72 32.88%
 
No 116 52.97%
 
I don't know 10 4.57%
 
Darn skeptics 4 1.83%
 
Results 17 7.76%
 
Total:219
JWeinCom on 10 January 2016
Azuren said:
I believe aliens have visited earth in the past. There is evidence of that, though because there is no reputable record of it, it is subject to debate.

I believe that what we refer to as a soul remains when our bodies expire. There is a lot of debatable evidence concerning this, but as far as the law is concerned? There are places legally considered haunted, so legally yeah.

 

If you're thinking what I'm thinking of, then no the house wasn't declared haunted, it was declared that the house's reputation of being haunted meant that advertising it as such was not false advertisement.

But, even if the court said "this house is haunted" it doesn't really matter.  The supreme court says that tomatoes are vegetables, but that doesn't mean they actually are.  The court deals with laws, they are not an authority on science.



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piratikkio on 10 January 2016

There is faith and faith, the faith in which is

 reasonable is more absurd that everything. 
Anyway the question is a act of faith in human
 stupidity 



PLAYSTATION®3

Eagle367 on 10 January 2016
JWeinCom said:
Eagle367 said:
RadiantDanceMachine said:

Billions of people across the globe embrace beliefs not based upon reason or evidence, but based upon faith. By doing this, faith is committed to an epistemology. This way one can draw conclusions about things and make declarations such as "I know God exists by faith". But let's not isolate this to mere god beliefs, this applies to any faith position. These would include paranormal claims, such as psychics or mediums, ghosts, or even those whom believe there are unicorns on Pluto. Definitions are in order here and since definitions are arbitrary, they are granted what is known as a priori true status which is to say that any definition is a *true* premise. The philosopher Friedrich Nietzsche quipped "Faith is not wanting to know what is true", I've attempted to use the Biblical notion of it without the allusions or poetry. 

Faith - Belief in something one cannot observe or reasonably conclude. 

Reasonable - Having sound reasoning. 

P1) Reasonable implies having sound reasoning.  (R → SR) [definition, a priori]

P2) Faith is absent sound reasoning. (⌐SR)[definition, a priori]

C) Therefore faith cannot be said to be reasonable. (⌐R) [modus tollens]

A very basic syllogism to demonstrate the falsity of the claim that "Faith is Reasonable" given that you embrace these definitions. If you think I've been uncharitable to faith, proctor a definition you think sufficiently describes faith as well as any arguments you think support the idea that faith is reasonable.

What say you, VgChartz, is this faith thing reasonable?

 


Tell me one thing. If you know something, then how can you believe it. Believing something is completely different then knowing it. If this world really is a test to test our beliefs, then what would be the point of God revealing himself to is. Then we would not need to belief, we will know and hence the entire point of testing us would be nullified. God, if he exists, can not be perceived by us as he has made us this way. It's like how we can not percieve 4 dimensional or 5 dimensional beings. We have our limitations.

That doesn't change the fact that it is silly to believe anything without some degree of evidence.  If god made life a test to see if we would believe in him, and then made us in a way that we could not in any way detect his presence, then that would be a sadistic test of the highest order.  Why would a god want us to believe in him without evidence?  To create a way to reward gullibility?

Edit:  And of course you can know and believe something.  They are different, but not mutually exclusive categories.  

 


What if there are subtle evidences that if you willing, you will be able to see. What if there are people who have realized these evidences and we haven't. What if, just like in science, there are ways to verify your beliefs if you are willing to learn. And what if you think that everything is pure randomness but the order of the universe itself is the greatest evidence there is? Also first you believe in something, then you either can verify it or not and then if you have verified it, you will know it. Belief itself means to feel strongly that something is even though there is no clear evidence supporting your feeling. So I think believing and knowing cannot be said for the same thing.



Just a guy who doesn't want to be bored. Also

hershel_layton on 10 January 2016

My glorious book of facts cannot be wrong. Why? Because inside it says so! yes. The book I have written is proven by itself! That makes quite a lot of sense!

 

Also, the "metaphor Jesus edition" is nothing but bogus teached by the Church to still fool people. I mean, damn. Other religious groups are doing their best to remove bigotry from their religion and teach the good things. However, christians think they're so special- that they somehow got over 2 billion Christians due to "THE LOVE OF GAWD".

No. Not even close. It was from the disgusting people such as the Crusaders who spent their lives forcing people to become Christian. Christopher Columbus also did that. He was also loved by Christians(since he helped spread slavery, which is encouraged by the bible).

 

But no...that's metaphorical as well...right? You people think you can trick anyone. Heh...pathetic.





 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

12/22/2016- Made a bet with Ganoncrotch that the first 6 months of 2017 will be worse than 2016. A poll will be made to determine the winner. Loser has to take a picture of them imitating their profile picture.

EntilZha on 10 January 2016
S.T.A.G.E. said:
EntilZha said:
Your definition of Faith is at best, very poor, and appears to be constructed to support your claim.
Faith can be reasonable, or unreasonable, just like everything else in the world.
Faith can be based on evidence, but is lacking irrefutable proof.
Having faith that the world is flat, is unreasonable. The evidence the world is round is irrefutable.
Having faith my wife loves me is reasonable, even in the absence of irrefutable proof of the fact.

Some people say that having Faith in an idea that can not be proven/observed is unreasonable, or silly.
Scientists have Faith in ideas that can not be proven/observed. They are called theories.
Scientific theories are ideas that are supported by evidence. This evidence may, or may not, be accepted by all Scientists.
Many Scientific theories are either never proven, or are disproven.
Despite the fact the Scientific ideas have been disproven countless times throughout ancient and recent times, many people still have 100% Faith in Science. Is that reasonable?

 

Science isnt based on faith. Its a study. Religious theology and science cannot be compared. Theories arent guesses and have to go through tests to prove itself from the stage of hypothesis. Everything made around you by man is based on a theory.

ALL theories are guesses. The tests are performed to try and determine if there is any supporting evidence for the guess. Sometimes there is, sometimes not. If there is insufficient evidence to support a theory (at this time), but you continue to believe in the theory and continue to study it to find more evidence, by definition, you have Faith in your theory. That is just as valid for Science as it is for Religion.

Example: There is a theory that God created all life, and there is a theory that life created itself. Both are guesses to try and explain where we came from. Neither has irrefutable proof and thus neither is a known fact. Therefore, you have to put your Faith in one or the other.





In the absence of evidence to the contrary, always assume you have the upper hand.

NNID = RangerOne

Switch = SW-2393-3671-6907

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S.T.A.G.E. on 10 January 2016
EntilZha said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:

 

Science isnt based on faith. Its a study. Religious theology and science cannot be compared. Theories arent guesses and have to go through tests to prove itself from the stage of hypothesis. Everything made around you by man is based on a theory.

ALL theories are guesses. The tests are performed to try and determine if there is any supporting evidence for the guess. Sometimes there is, sometimes not. If there is insufficient evidence to support a theory (at this time), but you continue to believe in the theory and continue to study it to find more evidence, by definition, you have Faith in your theory. That is just as valid for Science as it is for Religion.

Example: There is a theory that God created all life, and there is a theory that life created itself. Both are guesses to try and explain where we came from. Neither has irrefutable proof and thus neither is an a known fact. Therefore, you have to put your Faith in one of the other.

There is no such theory that god created life. If you have a college degree, your focus is a theory because it is tested and can be put into practice. An educated guess is a hypothesis. If a theory required faith...it wouldnt be a theory.

P.S.

As I said before....

Everything around you that has been created by man is based on a theory.





hershel_layton on 10 January 2016
EntilZha said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:

 

Science isnt based on faith. Its a study. Religious theology and science cannot be compared. Theories arent guesses and have to go through tests to prove itself from the stage of hypothesis. Everything made around you by man is based on a theory.

ALL theories are guesses. The tests are performed to try and determine if there is any supporting evidence for the guess. Sometimes there is, sometimes not. If there is insufficient evidence to support a theory (at this time), but you continue to believe in the theory and continue to study it to find more evidence, by definition, you have Faith in your theory. That is just as valid for Science as it is for Religion.

Example: There is a theory that God created all life, and there is a theory that life created itself. Both are guesses to try and explain where we came from. Neither has irrefutable proof and thus neither is an a known fact. Therefore, you have to put your Faith in one of the other.

 

Objection. Theories in your sense that is.

 

Could you people stop using the same "it's just a theory" argument? No! It isn't!

In science, a theory is an explanation or model based on observation, experimentation, and reasoning, especially one that has been tested and confirmed as a general principle helping to explain and predict natural phenomena. Any scientific theory must be based on a careful and rational examination of the facts people find.

 

There is no theory that god all life. And I'm truly sorry for that. I do not wish to insult or call you retarded. However, I cannot stand by and say that there is any evidence that fits the requirement for a scientific theory. There is just no solid evidence that can be accepted.

 

As for abiogenesis(explanation for how life began), that isn't completely understood yet. Perhaps if creationists stopped thinking evolution is meant to explain how life origined, then this argument wouldn't still exist.

 

Yes, scientists don't know. Boohoo. With technology, hopefully we'll learn more within the next decade or two. We still have so much yet to learn.



 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

12/22/2016- Made a bet with Ganoncrotch that the first 6 months of 2017 will be worse than 2016. A poll will be made to determine the winner. Loser has to take a picture of them imitating their profile picture.

EntilZha on 10 January 2016
S.T.A.G.E. said:
EntilZha said:

ALL theories are guesses. The tests are performed to try and determine if there is any supporting evidence for the guess. Sometimes there is, sometimes not. If there is insufficient evidence to support a theory (at this time), but you continue to believe in the theory and continue to study it to find more evidence, by definition, you have Faith in your theory. That is just as valid for Science as it is for Religion.

Example: There is a theory that God created all life, and there is a theory that life created itself. Both are guesses to try and explain where we came from. Neither has irrefutable proof and thus neither is an a known fact. Therefore, you have to put your Faith in one of the other.

There is no such theory that god created life. If you have a college degree, your focus is a theory because it is tested and can be put into practice. An educated guess is a hypothesis. If a theory required faith...it wouldnt be a theory.

P.S.

As I said before....

Everything around you that has been created by man is based on a theory.

Hmmm, you are right about my use of the word theory. I should have used hypothesis in my example, but the point is the same. If you believe in a hypothesis/theory/idea that is not a fact, you have faith in it. Faith simply means belief in something that is not a fact. Faith always includes the possibility of being wrong about your belief. 

 





In the absence of evidence to the contrary, always assume you have the upper hand.

NNID = RangerOne

Switch = SW-2393-3671-6907

EntilZha on 10 January 2016
hershel_layton said:
EntilZha said:

ALL theories are guesses. The tests are performed to try and determine if there is any supporting evidence for the guess. Sometimes there is, sometimes not. If there is insufficient evidence to support a theory (at this time), but you continue to believe in the theory and continue to study it to find more evidence, by definition, you have Faith in your theory. That is just as valid for Science as it is for Religion.

Example: There is a theory that God created all life, and there is a theory that life created itself. Both are guesses to try and explain where we came from. Neither has irrefutable proof and thus neither is an a known fact. Therefore, you have to put your Faith in one of the other.

 

Objection. Theories in your sense that is.

 

Could you people stop using the same "it's just a theory" argument? No! It isn't!

In science, a theory is an explanation or model based on observation, experimentation, and reasoning, especially one that has been tested and confirmed as a general principle helping to explain and predict natural phenomena. Any scientific theory must be based on a careful and rational examination of the facts people find.

 

There is no theory that god all life. And I'm truly sorry for that. I do not wish to insult or call you retarded. However, I cannot stand by and say that there is any evidence that fits the requirement for a scientific theory. There is just no solid evidence that can be accepted.

 

As for abiogenesis(explanation for how life began), that isn't completely understood yet. Perhaps if creationists stopped thinking evolution is meant to explain how life origined, then this argument wouldn't still exist.

 

Yes, scientists don't know. Boohoo. With technology, hopefully we'll learn more within the next decade or two. We still have so much yet to learn.

I think we may be a little off topic. I had no intention of getting into the whole evolution vs creation debate, or whether science can explain everything or not. Nor do I want to get distracted by the correct use of the word "theory". The debate was if having Faith in something was reasonable or not. The point I was making is that Faith can be reasonable or unreasonable. If something is not a fact, and you believe in it, you have Faith. You can have Faith in the existance of God, the love of your spouse, the competency of the plumber you hired, the Big Bany Theory (not the TV show), or countless other non-facts, and they can all be completely reasonable. 





In the absence of evidence to the contrary, always assume you have the upper hand.

NNID = RangerOne

Switch = SW-2393-3671-6907

S.T.A.G.E. on 10 January 2016
EntilZha said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:

There is no such theory that god created life. If you have a college degree, your focus is a theory because it is tested and can be put into practice. An educated guess is a hypothesis. If a theory required faith...it wouldnt be a theory.

P.S.

As I said before....

Everything around you that has been created by man is based on a theory.

Hmmm, you are right about my use of the word theory. I should have used hypothesis in my example, but the point is the same. If you believe in a hypothesis/theory/idea that is not a fact, you have faith in it. Faith simply means belief in something that is not a fact. Faith always includes the possibility of being wrong about your belief. 

 

Full Definition of faith

plural faiths play ˈfāths, sometimes ˈfāthz

  1. 1a :  allegiance to duty or a person :  loyaltyb (1) :  fidelity to one's promises (2) :  sincerity of intentions

  2. 2a (1) :  belief and trust in and loyalty to God (2) :  belief in the traditional doctrines of a religionb (1) :  firm belief in something for which there is no proof (2) :  complete trust

  3. 3:  something that is believed especially with strong conviction; especially :  a system of religious beliefs faith>


 

 

 

 

 

Selection 2b. is the point I am making. But I come from a religious family and there is one thing I have learned well. Faith is not rational but for human existence It might be reasonable for the mental health of many. This is why I leave it be.