I think you're wasting your breath on that guy, obviously has an agenda and uses all the misinformation and comments devoid of any logic he can make to push it. "Discussing" him isn't worth the headache.

TLOU has already sold a lot more than any Uncharted game, and its not like sad stories can't have mass appeal. Drake is an iconic character, but not mascot material. He really is just a pretty boy with a good sense of humour, not mascot material. In fact I think Kratos is the mascot character for PlayStation, with GT being its mascot franchise. And I'm sure Ellie has quite enough of a fanbase to be a mascot to some.

Horizon has the potential to be iconic cause its open-world, and open-world games have a much bigger audience than linear games or racing sims. It really depends on its quality and marketing though, but the potential is there.

I was just testing to what limits he would reach to prove his point ;) His agenda was clear to me from his previous posts.

I don't think it's sales alone, it's also that you have several games of a franchise.

I guess we agree to disagree in this point, I still think Drake would be a good iconic character for Playstation. Again, that doesn't mean that Uncharted is a better game than TLOU or something like that, I just think it and Drake have more mass appeal.

Based on what I've seen of Horizon so far, that's a very low chance. Looks interesting, but doesn't look like the new PS premier franchise.

It doesn't look likwe one yet, but we shouldn't discount the potentially huge audience of a well-made open-world RPG.

You're right, but if you are thinking Skyrim big then there are a lot of elements that go into making Skyrim big which are not indicated as being present in Horizon. For starters you are locked in to playing one character. That's immediately a departure from RPG roots, which will turn RPG enthusiasts off. So it's a hard road from there to most important franchise. If the game does very well then there is every possibility of the franchise becoming more expansive with fully customisable characters. There is huge potential with different tribes, but again so far it looks like everyone's human. Different races (elf, dwarf, lizardman, orc etc) are another core of RPG popularity. Perhaps different tribes can have evolved into quite different-looking races which evoke the classic RPG races, and a few unique ones too.

There's a great deal still to prove with this game / fledgling franchise.

Number of concepts have no bearing on the number of teams either. Oh look, Black Tusk must have 4 teams.

Lionhead working on a "couple" of new IP.  So they must be 3 teams!

Gimme a break.

Geurilla Amsterdam can only make one game at a time. If you want to prove otherwise, show us the game other than Horizon - Zero Dawn they're making now. If you can, i will gladly cede this particular issue.

Sheeeeeet you can say they have 50 "teams" if it makes you happy, they're still only going to make 1 game at a time and that just means Sony prevented them from making 50 new IP's for the last 8 years.

GT5 stumbled (as per yourself, it took 2.5 years to do what Halo3 and GT4 did in 8 months) , GT6 fell and cracked it's skull, if GT can no longer be relied on as a killer app for playstation, then what can?

Thanks to how GT6 was managed, they don't even have one.

I'm guess you weren't around in 2007, because lol at that statement. Drakes Fortune took the world by storm with an 89 meta and a 250k debut worldwide? lol. Man look up Rainbow Six Vegas, it would blow your mind.

Uha an 9.6 sequel game vs an 8.8 games is good work. But not necessarily as good as starting with a 9.7 to a 9.5 to a 9.3. It just means they didn't do so well the first time. Killzone 1 anyone?

Technically, the Uncharted series started lazy and stagnent, it got a big boost for a bit, now it's returning to being lazy and stagnent. After all as you stated, Uncharted 3 was as big a drop as Halo 4 in the metas

Eh. Arkham City released same month as Uncharted 3 (92) and meta'd 93, Arkham Knight, released last month has an 88. There's nothing really inferior about AK then AC to make it score lower. Scores drop over time. Pray tell what is Uncharted 4 doing that is going to reverse it's steep meta drops? The grappeling hook?

Well that's a meta drop of 6%. So that's lazy and stagnant by a 150%. But great? ND KZ:SF is a further drop of 11%. Things looking up for Geurilla?

Uh, Sony ditches franchises that no longer work. They do this a lot, because a lot of their franchises dont work. They don't manage them so well as Nintendo and MS so they're constantly looking for winners and pulling out at the first hurdle.

Well it's relative, Forza is not Microsofts biggest franchise, it's probably the 5th or 6th -  with bundles it sells roughly to par with god of war and uncharted do with bundles. GT, however is(was?) Sonys biggest franchise. It took 30 months with bundles from day 1 to *ship* 10 million. In that time, Halo Reach and Halo 4 and Kinect Adventures and Minecraft XB360 edition sold through more in the same or less time.

Don't need to, if we know it surpassed 10 million in 2 games, + 6 months of sales of game 3 and he says "Forza 4 sold more than Forza 3" it's an air tight circle of logic.

Hahaha. Seeing that in this context is hilarious.

But Fable III sold more than KZ3. Didn't KZ2 get outsold by Halo Wars as well.

Zero growth? How many more PS3's were there in comparison? Sold the same as U2 with 20-30 million more units, didn't win many goty awards, huge meta dip for a single entry. Plus this incredible eye opener:

With Gran Turismo now unreliable, that franchise was Sonys biggest ace. Also, Gears of War 3 sold well even without bundling, Uncharted 3 did not

Or they were too far in to production to outright cancel it without losing a year of work. But if they really wanted to ditch uncharted Uncharted 4 would be the last entry in the Uncharted series.

That sounds familiar.

Right, so if you believe that is important, how would you grade Killzone 1-4 as a franchise with 10 million sales in 9 years and a meta average of 79.5? Ignoring every other franchise in different genres, how does it compare to Halo, Battlefield, Call of Duty.....shit, even just Borderlands? It's not good. It's not compelling enough for another $50 million cheque.

Tabula rasa.