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Forums - Politics Discussion - Greece Defaults. What now?

eleonora said:
Well,since I'm Greek I feel like i should give my opinion on the matter.Greece's debt crisis was mishandled by both the Greek government and the EU/IMF.Imposing harsh austerity,with a country losing 25%(!!!) of it's GDP and having unemployment grow to 27% doesn't get your money back,it just creates a slave country with no bright future ahead.Greece,at the moment,isn't running on deficit,it actually has a surplus,a first in 20 years.So,i think that the ESM should buy Greece's debt from ECB and IMF,prolong it from 30years to 60years,and freeze it's repayment for 5 years,so as to let Greece get back it's lost GDP and have surpluses invested in the economy.Meanwhile,in those 5 years Greece won't be given more loans,as it will live on its own money.That could actually,put an end to an endless cycle of loans and create the right conditions for Greece to repay the debt in time.


Greece has to cut back more. the miltary spending is way to high.  and there has to be a constitutional reform to stop the tax fraud in the sipping industrie.

 

oh and legalise dope, that will bring in tourists and taxes and will lower the spending for police and prisons.



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generic-user-1 said:
eleonora said:
Well,since I'm Greek I feel like i should give my opinion on the matter.Greece's debt crisis was mishandled by both the Greek government and the EU/IMF.Imposing harsh austerity,with a country losing 25%(!!!) of it's GDP and having unemployment grow to 27% doesn't get your money back,it just creates a slave country with no bright future ahead.Greece,at the moment,isn't running on deficit,it actually has a surplus,a first in 20 years.So,i think that the ESM should buy Greece's debt from ECB and IMF,prolong it from 30years to 60years,and freeze it's repayment for 5 years,so as to let Greece get back it's lost GDP and have surpluses invested in the economy.Meanwhile,in those 5 years Greece won't be given more loans,as it will live on its own money.That could actually,put an end to an endless cycle of loans and create the right conditions for Greece to repay the debt in time.


Greece has to cut back more. the miltary spending is way to high.  and there has to be a constitutional reform to stop the tax fraud in the sipping industrie.

 

oh and legalise dope, that will bring in tourists and taxes and will lower the spending for police and prisons.


We could also legalize walking naked so as to attract more tourists.I mean get a grip :P .As for the military spending,it's that high because albanians dream of great albania,fyrom dreams of great macedonia,turkey dreams of taking over some islands,so u get the picture.As for constitutional reforms and tax fraud i couldn't agree more.There're many things that can be done in that field.Also,a modern pension system.But,all those things can't be done with a "wild" society.We should be given more room to breathe,so we can walk faster.It's not out of this world,asking to get unemployment down and start having growth,in order to repay the debt.



eleonora said:
generic-user-1 said:


Greece has to cut back more. the miltary spending is way to high.  and there has to be a constitutional reform to stop the tax fraud in the sipping industrie.

 

oh and legalise dope, that will bring in tourists and taxes and will lower the spending for police and prisons.


We could also legalize walking naked so as to attract more tourists.I mean get a grip :P .As for the military spending,it's that high because albanians dream of great albania,fyrom dreams of great macedonia,turkey dreams of taking over some islands,so u get the picture.As for constitutional reforms and tax fraud i couldn't agree more.There're many things that can be done in that field.Also,a modern pension system.But,all those things can't be done with a "wild" society.We should be given more room to breathe,so we can walk faster.It's not out of this world,asking to get unemployment down and start having growth,in order to repay the debt.

the fear of turkey is okay, but pls macedonia and albania?  and all this could be changed easyly, integration of the some parts of greeces army in the EU  army and joint EU military bases in greece. turkey will not start a fight if they have to kill italien and french soldiers because they are part of the same batalion than the greeks. thats wouldnt be something totaly new, germany and the land under the sea have a mixed corp  and germany and france a mixed brigade...

 

the EU should help alot more, building up the taxation infrastructure, bombarding swiss if they dont corporate with greece, making usefull demands(like taxation for the shipping industrie), etc.  i dont think greece would say no to usefull demands.



generic-user-1 said:
eleonora said:
generic-user-1 said:


Greece has to cut back more. the miltary spending is way to high.  and there has to be a constitutional reform to stop the tax fraud in the sipping industrie.

 

oh and legalise dope, that will bring in tourists and taxes and will lower the spending for police and prisons.


We could also legalize walking naked so as to attract more tourists.I mean get a grip :P .As for the military spending,it's that high because albanians dream of great albania,fyrom dreams of great macedonia,turkey dreams of taking over some islands,so u get the picture.As for constitutional reforms and tax fraud i couldn't agree more.There're many things that can be done in that field.Also,a modern pension system.But,all those things can't be done with a "wild" society.We should be given more room to breathe,so we can walk faster.It's not out of this world,asking to get unemployment down and start having growth,in order to repay the debt.

the fear of turkey is okay, but pls macedonia and albania?  and all this could be changed easyly, integration of the some parts of greeces army in the EU  army and joint EU military bases in greece. turkey will not start a fight if they have to kill italien and french soldiers because they are part of the same batalion than the greeks. thats wouldnt be something totaly new, germany and the land under the sea have a mixed corp  and germany and france a mixed brigade...

 

the EU should help alot more, building up the taxation infrastructure, bombarding swiss if they dont corporate with greece, making usefull demands(like taxation for the shipping industrie), etc.  i dont think greece would say no to usefull demands.


EU doesn't have a military yet.It's something that is being discussed at the moment.That would definitely secure Greece from Turkey for good.Greece is open to reforms,as long as,they don't create more recession and unemployment.



generic-user-1 said:

the EU should help alot more, building up the taxation infrastructure, bombarding swiss if they dont corporate with greece, making usefull demands(like taxation for the shipping industrie), etc.  i dont think greece would say no to usefull demands.


Germany offered to send 160 tax inspectors to Greece, to help the Greek government fix their tax collection systems, but the Greek government rejected their help. (Source)

And then there's the case of Greece's former Secretary for Public Revenue, who quit after receiving death threats while trying to improve the state's tax collection systems. (Source)

There's an attitude in Greece that avoiding taxes is somehow honourable or brave, when really it's the cause behind most of the country's problems. Greece has been running budget deficits for 40+ years. The reason that the troika have looked for spending cuts, as opposed to tax increases, is because their is a belief among the troika members (which is an entirely reasonable belief) that any measures agreed on for any deals that involve increases in taxes won't actually happen. Successive Greek governments have said they will improve tax collection methods, reduce tax avoidance, boost tax receipts etc. And they haven't. The previous Greek government got a small primary surplus last year and saw a small (but signficant, considering what went before) reduction in unemployment figures. And how did the Greek people respond? They voted in the loonies and stopped paying their taxes.

Greek tax receipts were €900m (a staggering 24%) under target in May this year. (Source) Basically, if tax receipts this year had reached the levels expected, the Greek government would have been able to pay the €1.6 billion to the IMF in June, as well as the upcoming €3.5 billion to the ECB (July 20th), without having to secure extra funding first.

At this point, any more support Europe offers should be conditional on reforms occurring first. If more money is advanced to Greece with promises of "we'll fix this" and "we'll fix that", nothing will change. The Greek government needs to get it house in order, then be rewarded for that (e.g. achieve primary surplus of 1% this year, get x amount of debt written off. Achieve primary surplus of 2% in 2016, get y amount of debt written off).



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0815user said:
palou said:
0815user said:
mai said:
0815user said:
countries debts are overrated in my opinion because unlike individuals no one can really force a country to pay them back. I mean what do you want to do? Invade them? And even if a county does default, basic needs towards the people will always be provided no matter how much debt they have.

 

The EU could very well kill off Greece economically, if they would want to. It would be stupid, of course, but the option to cut all new funding and trade relationships is a threat that can be made towards a country refusing to repay a debt.

But that would mean that greece (for not being able to pay creditors) and russia (for military aggression towards another country) would basically suffer the same sanctions. Unjustifiable and therefore not going to happen.

The US got no sanctions at all after overthrowing Irans democratic government militarily. The world is not fair.

Russia would normally get invaded by NATO in their case, if they didn't have the world's largest nuclear arsenal.

And economical sanctions are perfectly legal. Cuba got completely cut off. Greece is dependant on trade with the EU.

Also, stoppong to trade with Greee is much easier than Russia, as the link doesn't actually matter much to the EU. (losses towards russia upon the sanctions are greater than a complete stop of trade would be with greece, for the EU.)



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I win if Arms sells over 700 000 units worldwide by the end of 2017.

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sc94597 said:

The rest of Europe, parts of Asia, and the U.S follow within the next 30 years or so. Greece is just an extreme example of where the rest of the world is heading.


The US won't because it CAN rise up, pull together, and poduce for themselves. If they were in a mess, they'd get out of said mess.



I don't think that the EU and US would risk losing relationship with a nato member,basically forcing them to work with Russia and China only.



generic-user-1 said:

the topic changes a bit everytime... 

1. Present situation:europe is energie deficit at the moment because we dont like to drill holes(or more let giant machines eat great chunks of good soil to get coal out of the ground). buying energie from outside is way cheaper and we dont destroy our nature(smart plan).

I thought we were past this fallacy? I'm sorry, I won't bother to comment the rest of the post, nor I do have time for a more serious attempt to critisize smth that is so plainly skewed -- Europe has peaked on ALL major fossil fuels quite some time ago: https://goo.gl/OGJUuW, https://goo.gl/2AvBsf, https://goo.gl/tJRnLg -- translating this into your language: "you've drilled all holes that were possible". Or the word "peaked" is confusing you? Do you need a definition? Well, the meaning is you can't reclaim that back, NO f**king living example somene ever did, only staright line down into olbivion. I'm not saying cover yourself with a shroud and crawl to cemetery, but that's smth worth noting for future planing.