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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Nintendo 1st party sales profits vs. Sony/Microsoft 3rd party sales profit

 

Who has the most profit?

Nintendo 1st party games. 118 68.60%
 
Sony 3rd party profit chunk. 32 18.60%
 
Microsoft 3rd party profit chunk. 0 0%
 
Microsoft/Sony 3rd party profit chunk. 22 12.79%
 
Total:172
Samus Aran said:
gergroy said:
nobody talks about it because nobody actually knows hard facts on the issue. My guess is that MS/Sony make a lot more profit from third party titles than nintendo makes from first party. Mostly because they don't have any kind of cost associated with those transactions that has to be recouped before they make a profit and also the much larger volume of sales...

Both the PS and XBOX brand are in the red when profits are concerned.


This table is incredibly misleading.



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NewGuy said:
Samus Aran said:

Both the PS and XBOX brand are in the red when profits are concerned.


This table is incredibly misleading.


Don't let the truth get in the way of a good story! 



Yakuzaice said:
Samus Aran said:

Both the PS and XBOX brand are in the red when profits are concerned.

I don't know why people keep using this image.  For one, it is using Operating Income for Sony and Microsoft, but Net Income for Nintendo.  It hasn't been updated in years.  That 2012 Sony number is from when they briefly rolled in things like TVs and PCs into a "Consumer Products & Services" division.  The next year they broke "Game" back out and it showed a 29.3 billion yen profit for 2012 rather than the 229.8 billion yen loss.  So, no, the PS brand isn't in the red.

Here is a more up to date list of the numbers taken straight from Sony for the last ten years.  I don't think the Fiscal Years are aligned properly on that above image chart for Sony (i.e. the 2011 number should be in the the 2010 place and so on), so that could be adding to the confusion.  All numbers I took are for the Game divsion alone except for FY 2009 & FY 2010 where the NPS division (Networked Products and Services) includes PC and Other Networked businesses.  

The sales and operating revenue for FY 2009 in the NPS division is split ~56% Game VS ~44% PC and Other Networked businesses.
The sales and operating revenue for FY 2010 in the NPS division is split ~53% Game VS ~47% PC and Other Networked businesses.


Sony's Gaming Division, Operating Income over the last 10 years:


Sony's Game Division, FY 2004 (April 2004 - March 2005)
729.8 billion JPY in sales
+43.2 billion JPY in operating income (+$404 million)

Sony's Game Division, FY 2005 (April 2005 - March 2006)
958.6 billion JPY in sales
+8.7 billion JPY in operating income (+$75 million)

Sony's Game Division, FY 2006 (April 2006 - March 2007)
1,016.8 billion JPY in sales
-232.3 billion JPY in operating income (-$1969 million)

Sony's Game Division, FY 2007 (April 2007 - March 2008)
1,284.2 billion JPY in sales
-124.5 billion JPY in operating income (-$1245 million)

Sony's Game Division, FY 2008 (April 2008 - March 2009)
1,053.1 billion JPY in sales
-58.5 billion JPY in operating income (-$597 million)

Sony's NPS Division (includes PlayStation), FY 2009 (April 2009 - March 2010)
1,575.8 billion JPY in sales
-83.1 billion JPY in operating income (-$893 million)

Sony's NPS Division (includes PlayStation), FY 2010 (April 2010 - March 2011)
1,579.3 billion JPY in sales
+35.6 billion JPY in operating income (+$429 million)

Sony's Game Division, FY 2011 (April 2011 - March 2012)
805.0 billion JPY in sales
+29.3 billion JPY in operating income (+$269.5 million)

Sony's Game Division, FY 2012 (April 2012 - March 2013)
707.1 billion JPY in sales
+1.7 billion JPY in operating income (+$15.6 million)

Sony's Game Division, FY 2013 (April 2013 - March 2014)
979.2 billion JPY in sales
-8.1 billion JPY in operating income (-$74.5 million)


+$404 million
+$75 million
-$1969 million
-$1245 million
-$597 million
-$893 million (includes non-PlayStation segments)
+$429 milion (includes non-PlayStation segments)
+$269.5 million
+$15.6 million
-$74.5 million

= -$3,585.4 million USD operating loss over the past 10 years



KingdomHeartsFan said:

Nintendo first party games would get the money for the developer, publisher and console maker.  This should be in your OP.


So Nintendo would make roughly 65% of the revenue, while Sony and MS would do 30%. With this logic, 3rd party software on PS/XB would have to sell 2X what Nintendo sells in software. So, answering to the OP, Sony and MS do more money with 3rd parties than Nintendo does with 1st party games.

Edit: We are talking about profits, so you have to consider that Nintendo still has to cover the costs of developing/marketing/distribution, while this isn't Sony and MS problem when we talk about 3rd parties.



Samus Aran said:

Both the PS and XBOX brand are in the red when profits are concerned.


Despite the fact that the table is wrong, it isn't on-topic and doesn't answer the OP. He asked if Nintendo 1st party titles generate a larger profit than the MS/Sony share of all 3rd party games. The profit for the entire division includes profits and losses with hardware sales, 1st party games (for MS and Sony), 3rd party games for Nintendo. It simply includes irrelevant numbers that just fit your agenda.



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torok said:


Despite the fact that the table is wrong, it isn't on-topic and doesn't answer the OP. He asked if Nintendo 1st party titles generate a larger profit than the MS/Sony share of all 3rd party games. The profit for the entire division includes profits and losses with hardware sales, 1st party games (for MS and Sony), 3rd party games for Nintendo. It simply includes irrelevant numbers that just fit your agenda.


Maybe Sony and MS would make a profit for once if they stopped relying on third party support and made games that sell like Pokémon. ;)

It's pretty obvious that Nintendo makes more money.

Third party support doesn't come free.

Nintendo sells hardware because of their first party games.



Samus Aran said:


Maybe Sony and MS would make a profit for once if they stopped relying on third party support and made games that sell like Pokémon. ;)

It's pretty obvious that Nintendo makes more money.

Third party support doesn't come free.

Nintendo sells hardware because of their first party games.


Obvious? Why? Pokemon is a good seller, but it isn't a CoD or GTA, games that sell the majority of copies at full price and aren't retailing for a lower MRSP like portable titles. And just look at the massive amount of 3rd party games, it's way more titles than Nintendo can output.

3rd party support is basically free. Even when we have exclusivity deals, it's never a direct money transfer. It's normally lowered royalties, better online store placement, free advertising, bundles, things that are cheap for the console company.

And just to close it, they create games that sell like Pokemon, that is a 12M+ series now. Halo, GT, even TLOU will end up doing these kind of numbers.If we factor in 3rd parties like GTA or CoD, it becomes a bad joke.

3rd parties are what sells consoles. Lack of 3rd party support is why Wii U is in the position it is today and why this gen PS4 will easily outsell Wii U + 3DS even with a way higher price point.



Samus Aran said:
torok said:


Despite the fact that the table is wrong, it isn't on-topic and doesn't answer the OP. He asked if Nintendo 1st party titles generate a larger profit than the MS/Sony share of all 3rd party games. The profit for the entire division includes profits and losses with hardware sales, 1st party games (for MS and Sony), 3rd party games for Nintendo. It simply includes irrelevant numbers that just fit your agenda.


Maybe Sony and MS would make a profit for once if they stopped relying on third party support and made games that sell like Pokémon. ;)

It's pretty obvious that Nintendo makes more money.

Third party support doesn't come free.

Nintendo sells hardware because of their first party games.


I am lost are you saying it is obvious that Nin makes more money in general or that Nin makes more money on 1st party games than Sony/Ms do 3rd party games?



The absence of evidence is NOT the evidence of absence...

PSN: StlUzumaki23

torok said:
Samus Aran said:


Maybe Sony and MS would make a profit for once if they stopped relying on third party support and made games that sell like Pokémon. ;)

It's pretty obvious that Nintendo makes more money.

Third party support doesn't come free.

Nintendo sells hardware because of their first party games.


Obvious? Why? Pokemon is a good seller, but it isn't a CoD or GTA, games that sell the majority of copies at full price and aren't retailing for a lower MRSP like portable titles. And just look at the massive amount of 3rd party games, it's way more titles than Nintendo can output.

3rd party support is basically free. Even when we have exclusivity deals, it's never a direct money transfer. It's normally lowered royalties, better online store placement, free advertising, bundles, things that are cheap for the console company.

And just to close it, they create games that sell like Pokemon, that is a 12M+ series now. Halo, GT, even TLOU will end up doing these kind of numbers.If we factor in 3rd parties like GTA or CoD, it becomes a bad joke.

3rd parties are what sells consoles. Lack of 3rd party support is why Wii U is in the position it is today and why this gen PS4 will easily outsell Wii U + 3DS even with a way higher price point.

Obvious because Nintendo has been posting profit after profit since they became active in the console business. 

PS and XBOX brand haven't made nealy as much money as Nintendo consoles.

Nintendo posted higher profits than Sony during the freaking PS2 era. Sony still couldn't beat them despite selling 150 million consoles lol. If these third party royalties are so great than how come they're basically in the red as a whole?

First of all, Pokémon is much cheaper to develop and market than games like CoD, GTA or Halo. Royalties take up around 10% of a $60 game. Nintendo gets much more than that of each Pokémon game sold. CoD would need to sell over 40 million copies to equal 10 million Pokémon games. And Nintendo still has games like Super S=mash Bros. (6-8 million on handhelds, 3-5 million on Wii U) Mario Kart (sells over 10 million on handhelds and 5-7 million on Wii U), AC (around 8-10 million on handhelds, will also come on Wii U most likely), 2D Mario platformer (8-10 million on handhelds, 5-7 million on Wii U), 3D Mario platformer (10 million on handhelds, 3-5 million on Wii U).

Sony would need over a 100 million third party games sold to make as much money as those franchises in royalties.

Pokémon ORAS is a remake running on an existing engine using many of the same assets as X/Y. That game is pure profit lol.