By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Sales Discussion - PS4 LTD Sales should be at least 140 Millions

Shadow1980 said:

The PS3 & 360 were flukes as home consoles go. The Wii was more typical, peaking in its second full year. Here's the peaks by year & region for every console I have annual sales data on:

SNES: 1992, U.S. (1st year)
Genesis: 1993, U.S. (4th year)
Saturn: 1996, U.S. (1st year)
N64: 1997, U.S. (1st year)
PS1: 1998, U.S. (3rd year)
DC: 1999, U.S. (launch year)
PS2: 2002, U.S. (2nd year); 2002, Japan (2nd year)
GC: 2003, U.S. (2nd year); 2002, Japan (1st year)
Xbox: 2004, U.S. (3rd year); 2002, Japan (launch year)
Wii: 2008, U.S. (2nd year); 2007, Japan (1st year); 2008, Europe (2nd year)
360: 2011, U.S. (6th year); 2009, Japan (4th year); 2010, Europe (5th year)
PS3: 2011, U.S. (5th year); 2009, Japan (3rd year); 2011, Europe (4th year)

So, the norm for home consoles is to peak by the third full year. Only the Genesis, PS3, & 360 took longer, and those both have plausible explanations. The Genesis had to deal with Nintendo's de facto monopoly and didn't start to sell well until 1991 when Nintendo relaxed their licensing policies towards third parties. Meanwhile, a good argument can be made that the Wii was stifling growth of the 360 & PS3 as gamers chose the cheaper and more innovative system at first, but after it passed its peak gamers began switching back to systems that offered more traditional gaming experiences.

In the U.S., Nintendo systems have peaked either in year one (SNES & N64) or year two (GC, Wii, and possibly Wii U). The PS1 peaked in year three (it didn't start to really take off until after FFVII came out) and the PS2 peaked in year two.  The Saturn and Dreamcast both peaked very early, but they were never significant sales forces and were languishing behind their competition. The Xbox peaked in year three, and that's mainly because of a price cut and Halo 2. In Japan, hardware tends to peak earlier than it does in America. Meanwhile, Europe may more closely resemble America, with seventh-gen peaks almost perfectly mirroring those in the U.S.

As for handhelds, the DS peaked in year five in the U.S. but peaked in year two in Japan and year three in Europe. The GBA peaked in year two in the U.S. and launch year in Japan. The 3DS meanwhile peaked in all three major regions by 2013.

So, if I had to assign a norm for a system peak, it'd be year two or, less likely, year three. So, either this year or next year will be the peak for the PS4 & XBO, depending on the effects of price cuts and any potential system-sellers. With the Wii U being no Wii, I doubt they'll have delayed peaks like we saw with the PS3 & 360.

Using thsoe old consoles to prove anything is pointless, their sales patterns are irrelevent.

Everythign takes more time now.  PS360 were no flulkes their just modern reality.  

It takes 3/4 years to peak casue softweare takes that long now, it just that simple.  Add the price by then and you have peak year. 



Around the Network
Shadow1980 said:
Mikmster said:

Using thsoe old consoles to prove anything is pointless, their sales patterns are irrelevent.

Everythign takes more time now.  PS360 were no flulkes their just modern reality.  

It takes 3/4 years to peak casue softweare takes that long now, it just that simple.  Add the price by then and you have peak year. 

Merely asserting something doesn't make it so. As the PS3 & 360 had unprecedented sales curves with peaks later than any other systems in history, it's incumbent on you to demonstrate why this is the "new normal." So please, articulate your case for this in greater detail.

Using 2 decade old sales hmm Maybe project record sales based of the early 90s next ? lol

Any sort of guess based of numbers is done by using the last ones available as they will be more closest reflection of current trends and not decades old ones.  Likely used casue it fits your hopes and opinions.

1 majority console sales are no longer reside in US and Japan two rich states that due to wealth meant peak years happend earlier.  For many markets to buy into the console the price needs to drop.  As shown last gen.

2 Games take longer, incentive to buy into a gen early is not there like it once was.  PS2 had an awesome line up early on, thats just not happenign these days.  

3 basic logic, PS4 will sale more at 199 with GTA and GT then it does at 399 with Killzone and Infamous.  



I certainly don't expect PS4 to peak in year 4. But I also seriously doubt 2015 will be PS4's peak year. If it drops to $299 at the end of this year then I expect PS4's year 2 and year 3 to be a bit like PS3's Year 3 and Year 4 when it his $299. If PS4 only hits $349 this year than 2016 will be the $299 year and it will may peak in 2016 or 2017.

I certainly don't expect 3 months @$299 (if that happens this year) and 9 months @ $399 > 12 months at $299 (in 2016). I believe 2015 will be
The thing about late peaks from the previous generation is that this pushes a large number of people to feel that they haven't yet got value for money out of their 7th gen purchase(s), and hence this can delay entry into the 8th gen a little. This may or may not be a significant effect, but I don' think you can completely ignore the late peaks for PS3 (in particular) and 360 (to a lesser extent) as having an impact on the 8th gen sales pattern. I say 360 to a lesser extent because I believe the very unusual sales curve of 360 (basically 2 peaks) is down to the millions of casuals who jumped from Wii to 360 because of Kinect. And many of those millions are possibly not going enter the 8th gen at all. Or they might fall back to Wii U as one family I know has done. They had Wii early on, then got Kinect360, and now they have Wii U and probably won't buy Xb one.



“The fundamental cause of the trouble is that in the modern world the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt.” - Bertrand Russell

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace."

Jimi Hendrix

 

Imnus said:
BHR-3 said:

gaming aint as popular as it was during late 90s and early 2000s, i believe we'll get new HW sooner this gen and console gaming aint what it used to be in the west so stop comparing it to ps1 and 2s trends its gonna be tough for ps4 to get 20M+ ytd numbers let alone past 120M LT as seen predicted by many on here


I see people repeating this over and over, I've never seen any evidence that supports it though.

I don't think gaming has lost any popularity. I think there has been a sizable shift to mobile gaming, given the significant, required investment for smartphones (more than console costs) and the prevalence of freemium games on smartphones. Disposable income is not indefinite for the mainstream consumer.



Shadow1980 said:
Mikmster said:

Using 2 decade old sales hmm Maybe project record sales based of the early 90s next ? lol

Any sort of guess based of numbers is done by using the last ones available as they will be more closest reflection of current trends and not decades old ones.  Likely used casue it fits your hopes and opinions.

1 majority console sales are no longer reside in US and Japan two rich states that due to wealth meant peak years happend earlier.  For many markets to buy into the console the price needs to drop.  As shown last gen.

2 Games take longer, incentive to buy into a gen early is not there like it once was.  PS2 had an awesome line up early on, thats just not happenign these days.  

3 basic logic, PS4 will sale more at 199 with GTA and GT then it does at 399 with Killzone and Infamous.  

Not trying to be mean or anything, but your writing style is somewhat difficult to parse (is English your first language?). I think I get most of what you're trying say, so here goes:

Sales from the 90s & 00s is still relevant today, because history reveals consistent patterns about why systems sell the way they do (not specific numbers, but relative sales as well as sales curves). Saying that only the previous generation is worth of consideration when discussing curren-gen sales is a claim that lacks any merit. And I don't appreciate the insinuation that I use historical data merely because it supposedly suits my personal opinions. On the contrary, I go where the data leads me, and historical precedent demonstrates that delayed peaks are rare and when they happen it's during unusual conditions.

The U.S., Japan, and Europe collectively represent 85% of global console sales. The U.S. alone represents 40% of global console sales and Europe about another 35%, so those two alone will influence the global peak for home consoles considerably. Furthermore, the economic situation has little bearing on console sales. PS3 & 360 sales actually peaked during the recession and overall game sales remained strong, demonstrating that the console market is largely recession-proof.

The 360 & PS3 were by no means lacking in strong titles early in the console cycle. By the time of the 360's third birthday in the U.S., the following games were released for the system: COD2, Oblivion, Dead Rising, Saint's Row, GRAW, Rainbow Six: Vegas, Gears of War, COD3, Crackdown, BioShock, Mass Effect, Halo 3, Assassin's Creed, COD4, Fable II, Fallout 3, Left 4 Dead, Gears of War 2, COD: World at War, and GTAIV. I could provide a longer list if you want. In any case, the 360 & PS3 were not hurting for good software early in their lives. So, your software argument doesn't hold up.

Finally, regarding your final point, by that reasoning sales should always continue to increase as the system gets cheaper, but that doesn't happen. The PS2's peak was when it was at $200. Further cuts to $180, $150, and $130 did not make it sell better than it did at $200. There are plenty of other examples, but in any case it's quite clear that the PS4 will likely find its peak before it gets to $200.

So, after looking at historical data on how systems sell, the most plausible causal mechanism for the delayed peaks of the PS3 & 360 was the presence of a certain inexpensive non-standard console that was setting the sales charts on fire during the first several years of the last generation. You have still yet to provide any actual data supporting the notion that peaks occuring 4+ years after launch are the new normal.

It is second yet backed by actual logic.

Why are you lumping Europe in with those two ? Ukraine Belarus Pigs, more half of Europe is broke right now.  Double the pop yet similar enough number of hardware sold should tell you enough of the econimic situation of many living there.

No they really arent.  To much changes with that much passage of time.  You just encompassed the rise of apple and google, so for example maybe you want to use exporer and netscape user numbers in 2000 to predict 2015 search engine user breakdown ? i doubt it.  Or maybe top tv manafactuers by sales and see where they are now ? How about China and Japan swiching places.  

You just proved my software point.  I said "It takes 3/4 years"  

Look at PS2s peak year 2002, by the end of it 8 of its top 15 LT best selling games came out by then.  Development took less time and top quality software coame out ealrier then it will this gen.

PS360 user were hurting really bad for software early on, i dont think you are bing honest or were there your self to know.  The early going was damn brutal. 

I never mentioned 
$180, $150, and $130

199 is the sweet spot, most know that very well.  

PS4 will peak sub 300$ and around and after GT and GTA release (3rd + year NOT 2015).  you can quote me on that, we can bet put soem cash on it.  



Around the Network

It also depends when PS5 will be released. If PS5 will be released in 2019-2020, PS4 could pass 130M.
But I don't think PS5 will be out so late. So I stay with my 120M.



”Every great dream begins with a dreamer. Always remember, you have within you the strength, the patience, and the passion to reach for the stars to change the world.”

Harriet Tubman.

So far I'm on track with my predictions, I predicted the PS4 would sell 17M this year, it sold 17.4M, next year I predicted it would sell 21M totaling at December 31, 2016 for 56M LTD.



Could be higher, I wonder how high it might sale at 199 and with a massive batch of AAAs titles.

You may be slightly underestimating.

I believe 2016 will be truly massive, Uncharted will be first sign of whats to come.



Ttech. said:
Could be higher, I wonder how high it might sale at 199 and with a massive batch of AAAs titles.

You may be slightly underestimating.

I believe 2016 will be truly massive, Uncharted will be first sign of whats to come.

 

Yeah, I already pointed out a few posts above that these estimates are somewhat conservative, hence "at least 140 millions", given that in a really good year the PS4 sales could go as high as 25M and the momentum could be massive.

However I made this predictions only based on what we know now, there is some unknowns that could bring sales a lot higher, like VR catching on, a new mega franchise a la GTA appearing, etc.



I just want to say congrats on that 35 million at the end of year 2(35.9). I predicted that the PS4 would be at 56-57m at the end of 2016.