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Forums - PC Discussion - PSA: GTX 970 is really a 3.25 GB 208-bit card

vivster said:
Captain_Tom said:
vivster said:
Protendo said:
It looks like this affects all units even the ones with Samsung memory. Hopefully it's a driver error. Once games use 4 GB which is expected to start happening next year these cards are going to have abysmal performance to the point of being unplayable. It's fine for now but once games use 4GB, these cards will be in trouble. So if you are thinking about buying one either wait for a revision or wait and see what AMD has in store for us.

Read the first article where Nvidia explains it. It's not a driver error. It's the design of the chip. The last 0.5GB of RAM have their own partition which the GPU cannot access as efficiently as the first partition with 3.5GB. So this only ever occurs with games that use more than 3.5GB of VRAM. Still bad design though.

Makes me feel good in my hardware approach. Either go big or go home. 980 doesn't have this issue.

Also your assumption that by next year games will use much more RAM is false. Reaching 3.5GB of VRAM isn't that easy unless you go 4k. And for 4k the 970 isn't fast enough anyway.

There are games that use over 3GB of RAM in 1080p NOW.  What do you think it will be like in 1-2 years?  The 970 started as a card that rivaled the 290X with 4GB of VRAM, and now the 290 is already starting to beat it and it really only has 3.3 GB.  It isn't aging well, and it is only going to get worse.

Games with that much VRAM use are the exception and not the rule. 970 is too weak for current games anyway, so of course it will not be able to play future games well, no matter the VRAM. Guess what, neither the 980 or 290X will hold up well in the next 2 years.

What makes you so sure?  I have a 7970 that still plays EVERY game on Ultra maxed out.  Hell the 7970 GHz Benches like a 780 now because of how forward-thinking AMD is with their architectures, and the 7950 beats a 680 when it used to lose to a 670.

Who is to say that in 2 years the 290 couldn't be benching close to a 980 while the 290X trades blows with a 980 Ti?   By no means am I saying it will happen, but weirder things have happened...

 

Oh and your VRAM comments make me remember 3 years ago when everyone said "You don't even need any more than 1GB of VRAM anyways!"  Now all of those 580's are struggling to keep up with 6970's...



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Captain_Tom said:

What makes you so sure?  I have a 7970 that still plays EVERY game on Ultra maxed out.  Hell the 7970 GHz Benches like a 780 now because of how forward-thinking AMD is with their architectures, and the 7950 beats a 680 when it used to lose to a 670.

Who is to say that in 2 years the 290 couldn't be benching close to a 980 while the 290X trades blows with a 980 Ti?   By no means am I saying it will happen, but weirder things have happened...

 

Oh and your VRAM comments make me remember 3 years ago when everyone said "You don't even need any more than 1GB of VRAM anyways!"  Now all of those 580's are struggling to keep up with 6970's...

All I'm saying that VRAM will be the least problem of the cards. It just doesn't have such a profound effect you want to make it sound like. Please read the article you posted for yourself. The effects are minimal and in the single digits. You sound like someone who wants to make a Pentium III PC faster by putting more RAM in it.

Your 7970 plays every game maxed out on 30 fps. That's no standard. 60fps or go home. Your 7970 is not able to do that on current games, hell even the 980 struggles with that at in certain extreme cases. 970 barely keeps the status quo today. It won't be able to play any games properly 2 years in the future even if it had 200GB of RAM and a 1025 bit memory interface.

And that the 290X will ever come close to the 980ti is absolute garbage. Do you even know what you are talking about? Big Maxwell will have about the same RAM and memory bandwidth  as the 290X while massively surpassing it in everything else. Please educate yourself before making such "predictions".



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@vivster

your assumption that upcoming games won´t fill 4GB of VRAM is false.
my voxel-global illumination renderer alone is memory-limited by itself to give an example.
actually anything with voxels behind will get memory-limited pretty fast.

if you don´t know what a voxel is - it is like a 3D pixel.
while pixels consume O(N²) memory, voxels consume O(N³) memory - so that you know where the limitation comes from.

however this issue the GTX 970 has won´t effect real-world performance that dramatically anyway i assume.



You've got to be kidding me.....



KreshnikHalili said:
@vivster

your assumption that upcoming games won´t fill 4GB of VRAM is false.
my voxel-global illumination renderer alone is memory-limited by itself to give an example.
actually anything with voxels behind will get memory-limited pretty fast.

if you don´t know what a voxel is - it is like a 3D pixel.
while pixels consume O(N²) memory, voxels consume O(N³) memory - so that you know where the limitation comes from.

however this issue the GTX 970 has won´t effect real-world performance that dramatically anyway i assume.

My point wasn't that no game will reach it. My point was that it's the exception rather than the norm. Voxels are a great examples for this because barely any game uses them in a sufficient manner to fill up the RAM. It's easy to fill up the RAM, and it's just as easy to disable features to reduce RAM consumption. For example ultra texture quality that is barely an improvement but doubles consumption. See Shadow of Mordor.

The more important point was the one you also acknowledged; that RAM size and bandwidth limitations are not as big of a factor as OP likes it to be.

By the time that voxels and high quality textures become more prevalent we will have 512bit memory interfaces and at least 6gb RAM as a standard for performance gaming rigs. Now and in the future the biggest bottlenecks will be in the chip and not the RAM.



If you demand respect or gratitude for your volunteer work, you're doing volunteering wrong.

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Well, thank God I decided to wait for AMD to make their move, even if that means waiting until June (Grrr! Seriously AMD?).



Please excuse my bad English.

Currently gaming on a PC with an i5-4670k@stock (for now), 16Gb RAM 1600 MHz and a GTX 1070

Steam / Live / NNID : jonxiquet    Add me if you want, but I'm a single player gamer.

Nvidia announced that this is a hardware limitation. They cheaped out on the memory controller which is causing the problem. You basically have a 3.5 game card.

All games using 4GB in the future will have frame pacing issues, on top of lowered performance, but if you plan on keeping your card for over a year it has no future proofing. Nvidia press statement is reporting an average performance delta to hide the problem. Don't be fooled by this as the instant performance hit leading to lower than average results actually results in sporadic frame times, screen tearing, and judger for gamers when it happens. For games that will use 4GB in the future this card will be SOL.



Captain_Tom said:

What makes you so sure?  I have a 7970 that still plays EVERY game on Ultra maxed out.  Hell the 7970 GHz Benches like a 780 now because of how forward-thinking AMD is with their architectures, and the 7950 beats a 680 when it used to lose to a 670.

Who is to say that in 2 years the 290 couldn't be benching close to a 980 while the 290X trades blows with a 980 Ti?   By no means am I saying it will happen, but weirder things have happened...

 

Oh and your VRAM comments make me remember 3 years ago when everyone said "You don't even need any more than 1GB of VRAM anyways!"  Now all of those 580's are struggling to keep up with 6970's...

AMD GPUs age really damn well but NOT that well ... 

It's bad enough that Nvidia has to throw vastly much more transistors to beat a sizably smaller AMD part it would be humiliating to see a new 550mm^2 part having issues outing an old 440mm^2 part. 



Nvidia said they are working on a patch for this, but whoever wants can go get an AMD card and enjoy shitty drivers.



These guys knew about this and still sold it as a 4gb vram gfx card without telling anyone, consumers found out about this themselves?......ok then