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Forums - Politics Discussion - Freedom of speech is under attack and it could get worse

IFireflyl said:

It took one human to enslave another human, and no other humans to disagree with that motion, for this to have happened. People were truly free at one point. No laws, etc. But someone decided to enslave someone else, and the majority of people did not say, "That's not right! We won't let you get away with this!" It continuing to this day just shows that freedoms should be restricted, because people are selfish.

I'm confused. Aren't you supposed to be against slavery?



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badgenome said:
IFireflyl said:

It took one human to enslave another human, and no other humans to disagree with that motion, for this to have happened. People were truly free at one point. No laws, etc. But someone decided to enslave someone else, and the majority of people did not say, "That's not right! We won't let you get away with this!" It continuing to this day just shows that freedoms should be restricted, because people are selfish.

I'm confused. Aren't you supposed to be against slavery?


You obviously weren't able to properly interpret my words. Have a nice day.



 

IFireflyl said:

I don't think that at all. You're just using tunnel vision. I am saying the laws are there to restrict certain "freedoms" for a reason. That reason is that there are bad people who will do bad things with that freedom. I am saying that we shouldn't have true freedom of anything (speech or otherwise) because there are people who would abuse that. You're interpretting my words poorly.

No, the reason we have laws is that people who have power dislike something. Weimar Germany outlawing hate speech and banning the Nazi Party itself didn't prevent anything because, crazily enough, a law against saying something doesn't prevent people from actually saying it. All it does is enable the government to (selectively, as always) persecute certain people and make some bad people into sympathetic figures.



badgenome said:
IFireflyl said:

I don't think that at all. You're just using tunnel vision. I am saying the laws are there to restrict certain "freedoms" for a reason. That reason is that there are bad people who will do bad things with that freedom. I am saying that we shouldn't have true freedom of anything (speech or otherwise) because there are people who would abuse that. You're interpretting my words poorly.

No, the reason we have laws is that people who have power dislike something. Weimar Germany outlawing hate speech and banning the Nazi Party itself didn't prevent anything because, crazily enough, a law against saying something doesn't prevent people from actually saying it. All it does is enable the government to (selectively, as always) persecute certain people and make some bad people into sympathetic figures.


Okay. Have a nice day.



 

badgenome said:
RCTjunkie said:
Freedom of speech doesn't mean freedom from consequences. As long as people can call out stupid ideas and work to better the world freedom of speech works. We should be able to criticize governments, institutions, and even people. The founding fathers of the US said that phrases like fire in a crowded theater isn't protected and that I understand. But limiting freedoms to protect feelings or "enhance security" is preposterous.

Oliver Wendell Holmes was not a founding father. And he coined that phrase as a justification for preventing a socialist from handing out anti-war leaflets, so it was still preposterous.

I didn't know that. Thank you for the history lesson as disappointing as it is to hear.



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Interesting video. I myself have always thought that many of these "terrorist attacks" are done by governments in order to increase surveillance and control over people.



    

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MoHasanie said:
Interesting video. I myself have always thought that many of these "terrorist attacks" are done by governments in order to increase surveillance and control over people.


stupidity, incompetence, internal powerstruggle, extremists in the own ranks... there is no conspiracy.

I told a cop to suck my dick, I'll drink and piss wherever I want, and there's nothing the both of you fuckers can do about it. The next thing I know I am being struck upon the back and taken to jail! I had to pay a fine for public masturbation.



I describe myself as a little dose of toxic masculinity.

padib said:
IFireflyl said:
badgenome said:

No, the reason we have laws is that people who have power dislike something. Weimar Germany outlawing hate speech and banning the Nazi Party itself didn't prevent anything because, crazily enough, a law against saying something doesn't prevent people from actually saying it. All it does is enable the government to (selectively, as always) persecute certain people and make some bad people into sympathetic figures.

Okay. Have a nice day.

I think this kind of resentment built because (in this case) badge was rough with you is where the real solution needs to come in place. Walls need to be torn down, every day imho.

I personally really liked debating respectfully and civilly with you even if I disagreed with you, so keep it up.

Again, we need to break down the walls, and embrace the opinions of others in order to allow the better ideas to naturally bubble up. If we build walls, that process is stiffled.


No. This kind of resentment was built because he didn't properly read what I said, and then he implied that I'm pro-slavery. So I'm done with him.



 

binary solo said:
There is no country where speech is absolutely free from constraints. It's just a matter of where you draw the line. In parts of Europe it's illegal to deny the holocaust, and some countries will not allow foreign holocaust deniers to enter the country.

It's the laughable thing about so many people who yell and scream about freedom. They fail to understand that freedom is legitimately constrained in all sorts of ways, and indeed they normally agree with at least some of these constraints, though perhaps don't actually realise they are constraints on freedom.


This is absolutely true. We have a man called Geert Wilders over here in the politics that blames a lot of Islamic people for the terrorist attacks and maroccan people for making the cities unsafe and sometimes he crosses that famous super thin line between freedom of speech and discrimination which often gets him sued but eventually not prosecuted. And I think that's a big topic these days. Where do you put that line? 



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