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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Dromble: Dan Adelman Discusses Nintendo’s Culture, Third Parties, VC & More

st0pnsw0p said:
Interesting interview, but I strongly disagree with the whole "3rd parties can't compete" theory. I stand by my explanation that Nintendo's consoles are simply aimed at a demographic that isn't very interested in 3rd parties' games.


It's not necessarily that the demographic isn't interested in 3rd party games, they just aren't interested in the AAA blockbuster style games like Call of Duty, Grand Theft Auto, Assassin's Creed and other games that appeal to a similar demographic.

Games that have a similar appeal as Nintendo first party titles seem to sell accordingly. Rayman, Lego games, Skylanders, Disney Infinity, Just Dance do pretty well on Wii U. 3rd parties need to see what demographics are on each console and put games on them accordingly. Expecting a console with a strong kid demographic to buy M-rated games in droves doesn't make sense.



When the herd loses its way, the shepard must kill the bull that leads them astray.

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zorg1000 said:
st0pnsw0p said:
Interesting interview, but I strongly disagree with the whole "3rd parties can't compete" theory. I stand by my explanation that Nintendo's consoles are simply aimed at a demographic that isn't very interested in 3rd parties' games.


It's not necessarily that the demographic isn't interested in 3rd party games, they just aren't interested in the AAA blockbuster style games like Call of Duty, Grand Theft Auto, Assassin's Creed and other games that appeal to a similar demographic.

Games that have a similar appeal as Nintendo first party titles seem to sell accordingly. Rayman, Lego games, Skylanders, Disney Infinity, Just Dance do pretty well on Wii U. 3rd parties need to see what demographics are on each console and put games on them accordingly. Expecting a console with a strong kid demographic to buy M-rated games in droves doesn't make sense.


Yeah third parties do actually support the Wii/Wii U fairly well with the style of games Nintendo makes themselves (and thus define the platform). They don't bring the hyperviolent action/adventure games but those are honestly better suited to the demographics that Sony/MS market themselves (almost 100%) to. 

If I was running a business and making a violent action game with a big budget, as much I like Nintendo personally, from a business POV, Nintendo platforms would not be a priority for me either. Business is not about elementary school friendships, you gotta go where the money is. 



Just like I thought, you can't blame Iwata for all of Nintendo's problems. Firing him would solve nothing and would only be a symbolic gesture. Nintendo's problems run much deeper than that.



Samus Aran said:
Just like I thought, you can't blame Iwata for all of Nintendo's problems. Firing him would solve nothing and would only be a symbolic gesture. Nintendo's problems run much deeper than that.


That's honestly more depressing of a thought though because it indicates that even Iwata can't fix the problem or there isn't a singular problem here. 

The issue is systemic right down to the core. 

I also hate to say it but I suspect Miyamoto is one of the ones who makes a lot of the dumber decisions (I'd bet he was one of the ones who was gung ho about shunning CDs and going cartridge-only for N64 because he didn't like loading times, a mistake that Nintendo honestly never really has recovered from). I suspect franchises like F-Zero and Star Fox being shelved for so long also have a lot to do with his personal views. 

Great designer, but I don't think he should be on the board of directors or making business decisions. 



Soundwave said:
Samus Aran said:
Just like I thought, you can't blame Iwata for all of Nintendo's problems. Firing him would solve nothing and would only be a symbolic gesture. Nintendo's problems run much deeper than that.


That's honestly more depressing of a thought though because it indicates that even Iwata can't fix the problem or there isn't a singular problem here. 

The issue is systemic right down to the core. 

I also hate to say it but I suspect Miyamoto is one of the ones who makes a lot of the dumber decisions (I'd bet he was one of the ones who was gung ho about shunning CDs and going cartridge-only for N64 because he didn't like loading times). 

Great designer, but I don't think he should be on the board of directors or making business decisions. 

That's just guessing.

I forever like Miyamoto because he decided to turn Metroid Prime into a FPA instead of a third person perspective (which it was originally going to be).

If you want to blame anyone for using outdated hardware in new ways it's Gunpei Yokoi.

"Yokoi articulated his philosophy of "Lateral Thinking of Withered Technology" (枯れた技術の水平思考?, "Kareta Gijutsu no Suihei Shikō") (also translated as "Lateral Thinking with Seasoned Technology") in the book, Yokoi Gunpei Game House (横井軍平ゲーム館 Yokoi Gunpei Gēmu-kan?), which consists of a collection of interviews. "Withered technology" in this context refers to a mature technology which is cheap and well understood. "Lateral thinking" refers to finding radical new ways of using such technology. Yokoi held that toys and games do not necessarily require cutting edge technology; novel and fun gameplay are more important. In the interview he suggested that expensive cutting edge technology can get in the way of developing a new product.[10]"



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Samus Aran said:
Soundwave said:
Samus Aran said:
Just like I thought, you can't blame Iwata for all of Nintendo's problems. Firing him would solve nothing and would only be a symbolic gesture. Nintendo's problems run much deeper than that.


That's honestly more depressing of a thought though because it indicates that even Iwata can't fix the problem or there isn't a singular problem here. 

The issue is systemic right down to the core. 

I also hate to say it but I suspect Miyamoto is one of the ones who makes a lot of the dumber decisions (I'd bet he was one of the ones who was gung ho about shunning CDs and going cartridge-only for N64 because he didn't like loading times). 

Great designer, but I don't think he should be on the board of directors or making business decisions. 

That's just guessing.

I forever like Miyamoto because he decided to turn Metroid Prime into a FPA instead of a third person perspective (which it was originally going to be).

Maybe we'll know someday for sure, but I remember him being very anti-CD in those days. I wouldn't be surprised if he had a lot of input in that decision. 



Soundwave said:

Maybe we'll know someday for sure, but I remember him being very anti-CD in those days. I wouldn't be surprised if he had a lot of input in that decision. 

That's Gunpei Yokoi's philosophy. Granted, Miyamoto was one of his disciplines. 



Samus Aran said:
Soundwave said:

Maybe we'll know someday for sure, but I remember him being very anti-CD in those days. I wouldn't be surprised if he had a lot of input in that decision. 

That's Gunpei Yokoi's philosophy. Granted, Miyamoto was one of his disciplines. 


I doubt it. Yokoi was principally a handheld guy (and his philosophy is certainly reflected in Nintendo's handheld design, but not consoles, Nintendo had fairly high end consoles in the 1990s).



Soundwave said:
Samus Aran said:
Soundwave said:

Maybe we'll know someday for sure, but I remember him being very anti-CD in those days. I wouldn't be surprised if he had a lot of input in that decision. 

That's Gunpei Yokoi's philosophy. Granted, Miyamoto was one of his disciplines. 


I doubt it. Yokoi was principally a handheld guy (and his philosophy is certainly reflected in Nintendo's handheld design, but not consoles, Nintendo had fairly high end consoles in the 1990s).

What do you think the Wii and WIi U are? Even the N64 because it stuck with an old medium qualifies.



Samus Aran said:
Soundwave said:
Samus Aran said:
Soundwave said:

Maybe we'll know someday for sure, but I remember him being very anti-CD in those days. I wouldn't be surprised if he had a lot of input in that decision. 

That's Gunpei Yokoi's philosophy. Granted, Miyamoto was one of his disciplines. 


I doubt it. Yokoi was principally a handheld guy (and his philosophy is certainly reflected in Nintendo's handheld design, but not consoles, Nintendo had fairly high end consoles in the 1990s).

What do you think the Wii and WIi U are? Even the N64 because it stuck with an old medium qualifies.

I know some people will jump all over me for it but I think a lot of the Wii/DS was a bit of a fluke. Like for example they had no idea the DS was going to have a touchscreen at first, Yamauchi just insisted on two screens because he liked two screens (lol). Then Nintendo had to work backwards and figure out what to do with the second screen, that's how the touch input idea was born.

That's by Nintendo's own admission as to how the DS came together, which doesn't really strike me as a company that really knew what they were doing, but one that inadvertantly stumbled into something. 

I think the Wii/DS philosphy though comes from Yamauchi, I think he decided after the GameCube era that Nintendo could not compete head on with companies like Sony and particularily Microsoft that had huge cash reserves so they had to go the opposite direction.

Which worked well for a while, the problem ended up being they were like a schoolkid that discovered a $100 bill on the playground, but then a bigger, older kid swooped in and took it away from them. Apple/Google took over the casual market, and Nintendo with its conversative heirarachy predictably made bad decisions this gen and have squandered most of their marketshare from last gen.