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Forums - Politics Discussion - What if Heaven is some sort of trap? Will we still have "Free" will?

McGilliguts on 28 December 2014
gamemaster4747 said:
God wants people to love Him. If He wanted slaves, He could have just made us slaves to begin with, with such power. Read the Bible. The truth is there.


You don't get people to love you by threatening them with eternal torment. The bible is just a book, nothing special about it. 



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BMaker11 on 28 December 2014
MegaDrive08 said:
TheWPCTraveler said:
Free will is an illusion anyway, so I'm not worried.


There has to be free will to an extent, normally its people who do things wrong who like to believe in the "free will is an illusion" or "there is no free will" beliefs, so they dont have to be held accountable for any wrong doing they have done, so they dont have to worry or think about the consequences of doing things that are wrong.

Actually, "free will is an illusion" is not an excuse for people to do wrong things and say "it wasn't my fault". "Free will is an illusion" just means that everything that has happened to you in your life up until now will have led to the decisions you make. If, since birth, you were given red toys, red shoes, red backpacks, red hats, etc. then, subconsciously, your favorite color will become red. So when you go to the store one day and see either a blue shirt or a red shirt, yea, you have the "choice" of picking either one, but chances you'll pick the red one and believe it's "because you wanted it". 

"Experience teaches us no less clearly than reason, that men believe themselves free, simply because they are conscious of their actions, and unconscious of the causes whereby those actions are determined" ~Spinoza



McGilliguts on 28 December 2014
The_Sony_Girl1 said:
McGilliguts said:
I actually think those are some good questions, whether or not one believes in god(s). The christian God is primarily concerned with obedience - eg the sacrifice of Isaac. He doesn't really give a shit about much else, no human achievement impresses him, not math science or art. Not even virtue matters according to most Christians. You might be virtuous, but if you don't accept Christ as your savior, then sorry but you're fucked. this attitude is even more pronounced in Islam, and the sacrifice of Ismail is a major Muslim holiday. Observe the great throngs of believers bowing and chanting in unison and the message is clear - submission and obedience above all. Yes, God wants slaves.


Virtue doesn't matter, because it's like cleaning clothes with dirty water. It will still be dirty. Tell me, would you forgive someone who raped your partner, killed her, and stole everything from her? Just because that someone was virtous? God might love, but Justice also needs to be done. 

A murderer / rapist / thief isn't virtuous. However, if that person professes faith in Jesus than God is cool with them, just like that. Conversely, Someone who is kind and generous but reviles God rightly as an unmerciful tyrant is condemned. Basically, God is a petulant narcissistic brat.



MegaDrive08 on 28 December 2014
BMaker11 said:
MegaDrive08 said:
TheWPCTraveler said:
Free will is an illusion anyway, so I'm not worried.


There has to be free will to an extent, normally its people who do things wrong who like to believe in the "free will is an illusion" or "there is no free will" beliefs, so they dont have to be held accountable for any wrong doing they have done, so they dont have to worry or think about the consequences of doing things that are wrong.

Actually, "free will is an illusion" is not an excuse for people to do wrong things and say "it wasn't my fault". "Free will is an illusion" just means that everything that has happened to you in your life up until now will have led to the decisions you make. If, since birth, you were given red toys, red shoes, red backpacks, red hats, etc. then, subconsciously, your favorite color will become red. So when you go to the store one day and see either a blue shirt or a red shirt, yea, you have the "choice" of picking either one, but chances you'll pick the red one and believe it's "because you wanted it". 

Free will is not an illusion, you make your choices day to day, you have control of self, if you let material things control you thats an issue with yourself, thats your damn fault for not having any self control, duality is a universal law, you have options, you have a choice, and you can choose what you are going to do.



 

BMaker11 on 28 December 2014
MegaDrive08 said:

Free will is not an illusion, you make your choices day to day, you have control of self, if you let material things control you thats an issue with yourself, thats your damn fault for not having any self control, duality is a universal law, you have options, you have a choice, and you can choose what you are going to do.

Seems like you have a "my way or the highway" type of attitude. Because you clearly are just shunning an argument you don't agree with without considering the arguments for it. If it was as simple as "you have options", then "free will is an illusion" wouldn't even be a thing. And yet.....

http://www.cnet.com/news/free-will-may-be-an-illusion-study-says/

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/is-free-will-an-illusion/

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/sapient-nature/201205/free-will-is-illusion-so-what

There's all kinds of research that show that your decisions aren't as simple as "I have a choice". You just might be incapable of "thinking outside the box" in terms of your own mind. You're sitting there thinking "It's my option to hit "quote" and reply to BMaker11. It's my choice to tell him free will is not an illusion".....yet you completely ignore that your upbringing may have led you to video games, which led you to this site in the first place. And that the way you were raised made you think that every decision was "your fault", so you believe that free will isn't an illusion. You think it was your "choice" to believe the way you do, but there were things outside of your control that molded you into the person you are, and influence your subsequent decisions.

See what I mean? "Free will is an illusion" is a metareference. 



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pepharytheworm on 28 December 2014

Wasn't free will introduced to man by Satan when he told Eve what the forbidden fruit really was? Satan is an analogy of Prometheus giving us fire.



OfficerRaichu15 on 28 December 2014
KLXVER said:
I got real things to worry about, so Im not going to start worrying about fairy tales...

I laughed too hard at this even though Im Christian



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OdinHades on 28 December 2014

God can't do shit with billions of dead people.



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ExplodingBlock on 28 December 2014

wut r u smokin vilanger wot some m8



garywood on 28 December 2014
Ouroboros24 said:
spurgeonryan said:

If God does exist, would it not make sense he is some sort of Alien?

People who believe are easier to control. He does not want people who are always questioning to go to Heaven. 

When those of us who have blind faith go will we become some sort of slaves? Will our free will vanish?

Each week we are hearded like sheep into churches to chant his teachings. Does this not worry anyone?

1. 50/50 if there is a God.  If there is, then It would neither be alien or otherwise since it is God, creator of the rules.  He exist on both accounts alien or otherwise.

2. God is just God.  A role played because someone must play the role.  So, why would It care specifically if it goes in one direction or the other?  He doesn't need followers.  Thing will play as God will play them.  Imagine a God who is a silly god.  Someone who needs people to dress a certain way, act a certain way, then go through the motions of those customs set before from a book pretending to know what god is.  If you were to make your role of god, why care about anything?

3. When I die, my body may be gone, but consciousness, the essense of  a person, may still survive in some sort of capacity.  If perhaps our life had a ripple into the fabric of existence, then we may still have a place in the universe. Maybe more so than we'd ever expected.  What if death was a cracking of the shell and you exist in somewhere unbound.  No one knows what  after death is, why can't it be this way?

4. It is as importance and urgent as ending war and hunger.  But you know us citizens of the world.  We can never truly be appeased or compromised with.  There will always be a tip in the balance that have other at a disadvantage.  So you see that it is a never ending cycle of neglect on everyones part.  When after reading something like this and agreeing with the good of anything is.  Are you going to do something about it?  Or is this just a topic of interest.


Where the hell did you just pull 50/50 from? Have you heard of a concept called the burden of proof? If not, please read about it. If so, have you ever wondered why it's used?