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Forums - Politics Discussion - Will Religion ever be illegal in America?

Ka-pi96 said:
Dr.Henry_Killinger said:
Ka-pi96 said:
marioboy2004 said:

I guess no coincidence that Christianity and western civilization coincide when it comes to worlds brightest and technological advances

I guess it's also no conincidence that Western society fell behind Arab society when Christianity became the controlling religion in the west. Only when the west became less religious was it able to surpass the still religious Arabs again.

Is this argument about religion or christianity, you can save the trouble yourself and just wipe out all the... and forget that it even happened.

Point is science only functions when their is freedom of beleif, take that away for any reason and you're basically just as bad as the Church when they where in power. 

Seriously, blame the people not the what they claim to believe. 

That was kind of the point I was trying to make. marioboy2004 suggested there was some correlation between christianity and the worlds brightest thinkers I was trying to show that that isn't really the case. My example was trying to show that incredibly controlling religions like Christianity or Islam were in the middle ages deter rather than encourage progress and only after having freedom of belief was society able to properly progress again.

Alright. Good.



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marioboy2004 said:
mornelithe said:
marioboy2004 said:
When will atheism become illegal?

When the US wants to lose a major chunk of it's brightest thinkers.

Fixed.


I guess no coincidence that Christianity and western civilization coincide when it comes to worlds brightest and technological advances

Yeah, except you forget Arabic numerals, and Algebra's roots are arabic (and the word is derived from the Arabic Al-Jabr), and, yeah, let's not even try to marginalize Chinese and Japanese contributions.  People really easily forget that at one point the technological center of our world was in the Middle East.  Neil Degrasse Tyson has several discussions on the matter.  We'll get a front row experience though, if we keep demonizing science in this country.  The less we invest in scientific endeavors, the more we risk falling further behind.  Look no further than the scrapping of the Super Conducting Super Collider in Texas.  3x bigger than the LHC, would've found the higgs boson day 1.

Christianity has nothing to do with it, and in fact has had several issues with the scientific community in the past, it took the Vatican 350 years to apologize for their treatment of Galileo, for example.  No, it wasn't Christianity, the US simply had more money, and for awhile, saw the usefulness in such investments (and historically speaking, any civilization willing to invest in research/dev/education, thrives...until they stop).  But, all that aside, yes, some of America's brightest thinkers are indeed unbelievers.

Take a look at this though:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Science_in_the_medieval_Islamic_world

Don't marginalize what the Eastern cultures have contributed to the world, even if right now, not so much.



In a perfect world, nothing needs to be banned, simply no one chooses to do the wrong.  The philisophical rammifications on banning religion is out right blasphemy, not in terms of religion, but in terms of humanity. 

And what is religion?  Isn't Atheism also a belief system?  Despite not believing in a higher power, the power is relegated onto humanity in itself. 

But yeah, it would be pretty cool if everyone gave in to logic and cast aside the romanticism of easy answers.



Ouroboros24 said:

In a perfect world, nothing needs to be banned, simply no one chooses to do the wrong.  The philisophical rammifications on banning religion is out right blasphemy, not in terms of religion, but in terms of humanity. 

And what is religion?  Isn't Atheism also a belief system?  Despite not believing in a higher power, the power is relegated onto humanity in itself. 

But yeah, it would be pretty cool if everyone gave in to logic and cast aside the romanticism of easy answers.

No, it isn't.  It merely means without God.  It has no belief system attached to it.



Ka-pi96 said:
jigokutamago said:
Ka-pi96 said:

I guess it's also no conincidence that Western society fell behind Arab society when Christianity became the controlling religion in the west. Only when the west became less religious was it able to surpass the still religious Arabs again.

Wait, are you saying Arab society flourished when it adopted Islam? It is interesting that there seems to be a trend where a prophet finds a major religion, society happens to advance, society starts to decay as the religion becomes less suited to the age, and then another prophet appears to continue the progress.

I don't know if Islam had anything to do with it. Just that Europe was backwards for a while (the dark ages) while the Arab world was a lot better off technologically and culturally during that period.

I think you're right. All of the gretest scientists in the Arab and Persian world made their discoveries after Islam was introduced. I guess because the religion encourages education and learning. 



    

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Ka-pi96 said:
Dr.Henry_Killinger said:Is this argument about religion or christianity, you can save the trouble yourself and just wipe out all the... and forget that it even happened.

Point is science only functions when their is freedom of beleif, take that away for any reason and you're basically just as bad as the Church when they where in power. 

Seriously, blame the people not the what they claim to believe. 

That was kind of the point I was trying to make. marioboy2004 suggested there was some correlation between christianity and the worlds brightest thinkers I was trying to show that that isn't really the case. My example was trying to show that incredibly controlling religions like Christianity or Islam were in the middle ages deter rather than encourage progress and only after having freedom of belief was society able to properly progress again.

Atheism is just an eloquent way for people to use flowery verbs and adjectives to Re-present pagan morality as the "new age" morality, when in fact abortion, euthanasia, and sexual hedonism were all there before Christianity came to be..it's the "neopaganism" and Christians just filtered the harmful stuff out
Even the slavery abolitionist movement was led by the Church.. Martin Luther king jr was a renowned preacher and christian himself



marioboy2004 said:

Atheism is just an eloquent way for people to use flowery verbs and adjectives to Re-present pagan morality as the "new age" morality, when in fact abortion, euthanasia, and sexual hedonism were all there before Christianity came to be..it's the "neopaganism" and Christians just filtered the harmful stuff out
Even the slavery abolitionist movement was led by the Church.. Martin Luther king jr was a renowned preacher and christian himself

Paganism has spiritualism and deities involved. Atheism, by definition, is the disbelief of deities and spiritualism. Do not fabricate a non-existent connection between atheism to paganism or other religions. And the bolded doesn't help your argument at all. You're merely stating "interesting facts".



marioboy2004 said:
Ka-pi96 said:
Dr.Henry_Killinger said:Is this argument about religion or christianity, you can save the trouble yourself and just wipe out all the... and forget that it even happened.

Point is science only functions when their is freedom of beleif, take that away for any reason and you're basically just as bad as the Church when they where in power. 

Seriously, blame the people not the what they claim to believe. 

That was kind of the point I was trying to make. marioboy2004 suggested there was some correlation between christianity and the worlds brightest thinkers I was trying to show that that isn't really the case. My example was trying to show that incredibly controlling religions like Christianity or Islam were in the middle ages deter rather than encourage progress and only after having freedom of belief was society able to properly progress again.

Atheism is just an eloquent way for people to use flowery verbs and adjectives to Re-present pagan morality as the "new age" morality, when in fact abortion, euthanasia, and sexual hedonism were all there before Christianity came to be..it's the "neopaganism" and Christians just filtered the harmful stuff out
Even the slavery abolitionist movement was led by the Church.. Martin Luther king jr was a renowned preacher and christian himself

If I could interject here. Rather than trying to somehow peg atheism as religion, instead point out the following rational flaws:

Generalization of all religions: Not all religions are thiestic, not all of them are the same; Some athiests act like it is a belief system but in reality its only the rejection of thiesm not a fully fleged religion.

Using religion as a scapegoat: point out how ludicrous it is for a book to make people want to inflict genocide, instead of their own choices

But I'm done with this thread, I've wasted to much time here.



In this day and age, with the Internet, ignorance is a choice! And they're still choosing Ignorance! - Dr. Filthy Frank

Considering that the entire country was founded on the premise of freedom of religion and speech (1st amendment), never.

Remember, its not relgiion/faith that's the issue - it's people who can't read. For example - any Christian who judges ANYONE else, who seeks retaliation/revenge, is going directly against the teachings of Christ - you know, the guy who is the core of CHRISTianity.



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Religion is under attack is something that religious people like to say so that they can remain the dominant majority while paradoxically also playing the victim card. Barring a major political coup, there would be no way to make religion illegal.

As for whether or not it should be practiced, some people need their security blanket to sleep at night, so let them have it as long as clear boundaries are maintained between the church and state. The problem is these boundaries are not often maintained. See the Mormon Church's involvement in prop 8 for instance.