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FF13 Sucks... here's why.

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Wright said:

Really, so this is what we've come up to?

I don't want you to leave the site. All I ever wanted was to show that people who say that FF XIII is objectively bad are wrong, because mixing "objectively" and "bad" in the same sentence will never ever cope out well.


Indeed. He didn't seem to understand this:

Objective: The game is linear.

Subjective: The game is bad because it's linear.



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Hynad said:
Wright said:

Really, so this is what we've come up to?

I don't want you to leave the site. All I ever wanted was to show that people who say that FF XIII is objectively bad are wrong, because mixing "objectively" and "bad" in the same sentence will never ever cope out well.


Indeed. He didn't seem to understand this:

Objective: The game is linear.

Subjective: The game is bad because it's linear.


As some other members pointed out, there's indeed objective critisizism to be had on a game. Technical departments, like framerrate, steady fps; things like that. Also some shady practices, like locking ending or portions of the game can also fit into an objective view (all assuming the average consumer isn't okay with lock content).

But anything above there falls into the subjective plane. Not liking something because you can only control a character, because it is linear, because you think you need the codex to fully understand the story, because the characters aren't up your taste and etc, etc, etc, are pure subjective.



Hey you guys don't have to like me, or respect my opinion... and let's face it, it would be disingenuous and disrespectful to you to not react honestly. I think you're both wrong. I think you're blinkered and lack objective reasoning. That's OK though, that's what a debate is about, and sometimes people will clash personality wise. I'm sure you consider me excessively forceful and arrogant.

All the same, thank you for the debate, and I do still respect you as people... but it's nonsense to say we have to respect each others opinions. I can't however stay on a site that gives 3 day bans because you're slightly impolite. It's ridiculous, and it's treating us all like children.

Thanks again. (I'm shocked this account hasn't been banned yet).



AngryLemon said:
Hey you guys don't have to like me, or respect my opinion... and let's face it, it would be disingenuous and disrespectful to you to not react honestly. I think you're both wrong. I think you're blinkered and lack objective reasoning. That's OK though, that's what a debate is about, and sometimes people will clash personality wise. I'm sure you consider me excessively forceful and arrogant.

All the same, thank you for the debate, and I do still respect you as people... but it's nonsense to say we have to respect each others opinions. I can't however stay on a site that gives 3 day bans because you're slightly impolite. It's ridiculous, and it's treating us all like children.

Thanks again. (I'm shocked this account hasn't been banned yet).


Of course, then there's the thing about true objectiveness not being possible as humans are all flawed. But that's an even more deep analysis into it that, ironic enough, it is subjective.



AngryLemon said:
Hey you guys don't have to like me, or respect my opinion... and let's face it, it would be disingenuous and disrespectful to you to not react honestly. I think you're both wrong. I think you're blinkered and lack objective reasoning. That's OK though, that's what a debate is about, and sometimes people will clash personality wise. I'm sure you consider me excessively forceful and arrogant.

All the same, thank you for the debate, and I do still respect you as people... but it's nonsense to say we have to respect each others opinions. I can't however stay on a site that gives 3 day bans because you're slightly impolite. It's ridiculous, and it's treating us all like children.

Thanks again. (I'm shocked this account hasn't been banned yet).

You act like a children. So of course you'll be treated as such.



  • PSN: Hynad
  • NN: 3519-6016-4122
  • XBL: Hynad
  • Steam: Hynad81
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Wright said:
AngryLemon said:
Hey you guys don't have to like me, or respect my opinion... and let's face it, it would be disingenuous and disrespectful to you to not react honestly. I think you're both wrong. I think you're blinkered and lack objective reasoning. That's OK though, that's what a debate is about, and sometimes people will clash personality wise. I'm sure you consider me excessively forceful and arrogant.

All the same, thank you for the debate, and I do still respect you as people... but it's nonsense to say we have to respect each others opinions. I can't however stay on a site that gives 3 day bans because you're slightly impolite. It's ridiculous, and it's treating us all like children.

Thanks again. (I'm shocked this account hasn't been banned yet).


Of course, then there's the thing about true objectiveness not being possible as humans are all flawed. But that's an even more deep analysis into it that, ironic enough, it is subjective.


I would genuinely like to discuss this with you more. Honestly. It's only worth having a debate after all if we disagree... however if we continue this discussion it'll just get heated and I got a 1 day ban for literally telling someone to stop flaming. I didn't even swear. I can't hold down a debate with such pathetic nanny-state restrictions trying to legislate politeness on the members. Debates by their very nature are not polite. Even if in three days when my main account is unblocked I came back, I'd be back mere minutes before I got yet another ridiculous ban.

I'm almost 30 years old, I don't need someone policing my discussions. My feelings aren't so delicate I can't take it if you call me a closed minded arrogant prick, and I'm sure you can handle it if I call you a stupid fanboy who can't admit the truth... I respect you enough to assume you can handle a mean word. If you don't want to debate me, you wouldn't respond. We're both perfectly capable of walking away, we don't need moderators to tell us to behave. Their job is to stop illegal content, child porn, spam etc. not make us be nice to each other. That's the problem.

Still, it was good while it lasted.



TornadoCreator said:
0815user said:
TornadoCreator said:
0815user said:
TornadoCreator said:
0815user said:

*snip*


Don't insult my intelligence. It still neither explain why the fal'Cie wish to call a deity, or why they think killing a shit-load of people will make one turn up. It explains nothing. It's a leap of logic that makes no sense. How do you make the jump from "hates the state of mindset the cocoon society" to "let's call God to change it". How can he justify his actions. Why would creating more chaos and killing everyone make God turn up, there's no justification for this assumption. Why would God "reboot" everything, there's no justification for this assumption. What fucking good is all this if you're dead? Never considered. How are you going to "talk to God" if you're already dead? Never explained....

This is not a case of me "no getting it", I understood the story in perfect clarity thank you, that's why I can see the many many ridiculous plot holes and massive amounts of circular logic. Trying to make me out to be an idiot who just doesn't get it isn't going to work, so stop it; the fact is the story is pants on head retarded and you're just too much of a fanboy to admit that.

would it help if there were some kind of reference to an old religious script in ff13, similar to bible, koran or other ancient teachings in our world, with concepts like the flood our judgement day to answer your questions?

Not especially no, it would be a flimsy reference that's hidden in a datalog (amongst the what must hundreds of datalogs), which makes no sense for the fal'Cie to put so much stock into, and would only serve to highlight how terrible the story is because it's never actually covered in gameplay, mentioned by the characters, or even hinted at by the world. It would be a perfect example of a total failure to grasp the concept of "show don't tell".

In short, I already know about the datalog, it's a vague poem that was presumably written by a human and has no backing behind it that would assign it any greater value than any other random peice of artistic expression. It's lazy grasping and even then it's so bady written I'd claim it doesn't qualify as an explaination. Hell they even hide it in the Analects which is the "unimportant fluff peices" section. Comparing that to the Bible or Koran is quite frankly insulting, and I'm an atheist, so that says something.

just for curiosity: what was the last jrpg type game you enjoyed?

Hmm, probably Resonance Of Fate; though I've not actually played Bravely Default through yet and I'm not sure if Fire Emblem: Awakening or Pokémon Y would count as they have less traditional JRPG gameplay. I'm a big fan of Lost Odyssey though, that was really good, particularly the combat system and the memory retrieval dynamic.

can't say much about the others but i would consider resonance of fates story definitly weaker than ff13. however, to me that doesn't really matter because rof (like it as well but for other reasons than ff13) has other qualitys like for example unique, interesting gameplay and world. now, i assume you probably like rof because of other reasons than the story as well because otherwise i can't see why you dislike ff13s so much. my point is: don't you find it a little bit unfair when you criticize  ff13s story so much when rof, another game from the same genre, had an even less developed one? Especially when you were able to enjoy the game overall?



When Lightning does back flips it sucks less than this thread. Not Objective enough for you? hee hee



I enjoyed Final Fantasy XIII. I remember liking the post-game much more than the core game because the battle system really seemed to open up after the final battle....or maybe I was playing the game wrong. FF13 is definitely a polarizing title though, and I've accepted that.



If there is something I can make out of this thread is that Final Fantasy XIII still sucks. I do have to admit that objectively the game can't be that bad because sales where quite decent.

Yes, sales are the best way to determine if a game is "objectively good". After all, if thousands upon thousands of people liked the game then it's pretty likely that the game is doing something right.



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