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Forums - Politics Discussion - George Takei’s Ripping Letter to AZ about ‘Turn Away the Gay’ Bill

KylieDog said:
The Bill is wrong, but don't shop owners have the right to turn away anyone anyway?

No, because that would mean you could show someone the door if you don't like their skin color, gender etc. That is discrimination.... unless you live in Arizona of course and turn away someone you think is gay.



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melbye said:
A little bit of Russia in America

Yeah, maybe Arizona is trying to get the Olympic Games ...



If the word 'gay' offends you, why comment on a thread that is clearly going to contain the word?

And homophobia is, today, far more rampant than racism is and in parts of the world still carries a death penalty. Lynch mobs and the holocaust aside, I struggle to think of a single instance where the colour of one's skin carried mandatory life sentences or the death penalty.

You may not agree with people being allowed to choose who and how they love without fear of bigotry and repression; but I ask you to keep those opinions to yourself rather than using offensive and insensitive language in a thread that quite clearly is going to attract the LGBT members of the board, as well as people with an interest in civil rights and liberties.



MonstaTruk said:

I think the word, the people who seek relationships like that, and the people who try to make it "alright" are confused.  I'm a big boy, though, I'm not gonna start crying.  I just believe that the small group of people who've experienced some unfortunate events while they were younger, are making a strong impression on a society today that the parents/guardians aren't around to make ANY impression.  Again, no one's civil rights should be compromised, regardless of sex, race, religion...whatever.

Don't worry, I believe you when you say that you think no one's civil rights should be comprimised. It's just a little odd you consider the word 'gay' offensive. It has many meanings but you are associating one use of it in a negative way.

Can I ask why you think being gay is wrong and why supporting the gay community is wrong as well?



Hmm, pie.

KingEidilleg said:
KylieDog said:
The Bill is wrong, but don't shop owners have the right to turn away anyone anyway?

No, because that would mean you could show someone the door if you don't like their skin color, gender etc. That is discrimination.... unless you live in Arizona of course and turn away someone you think is gay.


Well, don't businesses have a right to discrimination? Many often do discriminate, too. They discriminate against poor workers in favour of good workers. Many businesses discriminate on basis of race and gender, too, if it's good for business - think Epcot, restaurants, Hollywood. You then also have positive discrimination, which in many ways is forced by law in some places - forced quotas of races and genders, which results in unfairly high standards being placed on the majority, in favour of minorities.

Not that I'm defending discrimination for reasons of hatred. I think it's a disgusting act, and I wouldn't (knowingly) support any business that engaged in it. But in a question of rights, the business owner should have the right to discriminate however he chooses... he's the property owner. You can refuse access to your house to anybody based on whatever reasoning, just because you're selling something in the front room shouldn't change that.

It's terrible practise business wise, however, and the market would eventually eliminate the discrimination. Businesses who refuse chunks of service for arbitary reasons are going to be outcompeted by businesses who don't. Same with workforce. If you don't hire some dude because he's gay, but he happens to be more productive than all the straight people in this industry, for whatever reason, he's going to go to your competition and the competition will benefit from your discrimination. Increasing productivity, lowering costs, and improving profitability.



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KingEidilleg said:
KylieDog said:
The Bill is wrong, but don't shop owners have the right to turn away anyone anyway?

No, because that would mean you could show someone the door if you don't like their skin color, gender etc. That is discrimination.... unless you live in Arizona of course and turn away someone you think is gay.

Discrimination is legal.  Outside of Skin Color, Gender (Biological), Age and disibility.

Well depending on the state.  This is true for more states then it's untrue for however.

So,  really this law is even more stupid and hateful when you consider that.

 

http://reason.com/blog/2014/02/21/news-flash-its-already-legal-to-deny-ser



ganoncrotch said:
MonstaTruk said:
First, I'd like to say that I admit that this bill is rough/bold, in its wording. Welcome to the South. But I disagree with the connections to racial discrimination. This is all about...how someone has sex, right? No one HAS to tell anyone HOW they have sex. And no one has to be FORCED to like/dislike anyone. Now don't get me wrong: this bill will get turned around ASAP. I believe everyone should have equal rights. But my thing is that this doesn't HAVE to be a fight if you are homosexual. I mean, do g*ys where LBGT tags, or are required to tell receptionists if you're g*y? Keep your bedroom situations...in the bedroom. Simple patch?


two things about this bolded part

-1. Gay isn't a profanity nor should it ever need to be censored like this. Calling someone gay as a slur is where you will run into trouble for using the word but it's not because the word is bad it is because you are using it as an insult whereas it is a lifestyle.

-2. I'm pretty sure if I was working at a hotel and there was a couple booking into a honeymoon suite for a lovely weekend together I wouldn't need to ask if the 2 of them were gay if you get what I mean? This law would give that receptionist the perfect right to say to that couple to go be gay somewhere else, they could lie and claim they weren't going to share the bed... but really I know you are saying that people shouldn't have to be told about their sexual preference, but should they need to hide/lie about it?

But wouldn't that be a win-win? The bad hotel losing money and the gay couple for not checking into a homophobic hell hole.



If you demand respect or gratitude for your volunteer work, you're doing volunteering wrong.

MonstaTruk said:

Well look, I already said I don't agree with the bill, it's full of Big-Bodied-Sh*t.  As far as how g*ys live their life, I'm gonna say it like this: if you think it's alright to be g*y, someone dropped the ball, in your development as a child...

 

Now I'll patiently await my banning from a moderator because I'm not a member of LBGT... :-/

I've no interest in the "is gay okay" debate, so I will simply respond in kind. if you think basing your morality on a book written by illiterate peasants 2000 years ago, voted upon by committee, about a magical sky wizard who inseminated a virgin by magic then clearly you were dropped onto your head repeatedly as a child.

;)

~Mod Edit~

This post has been moderated.

-Smeags



SamuelRSmith said:


Well, don't businesses have a right to discrimination? Many often do discriminate, too. They discriminate against poor workers in favour of good workers. Many businesses discriminate on basis of race and gender, too, if it's good for business - think Epcot, restaurants, Hollywood. You then also have positive discrimination, which in many ways is forced by law in some places - forced quotas of races and genders, which results in unfairly high standards being placed on the majority, in favour of minorities.

They will discriminate of course but they will never tell you that they discriminate... I suppose it is hard to prove they're discriminating, unless some e-mail or memo turns up somewhere... But hey, I'm no expert on the subject.



MonstaTruk said:

Well look, I already said I don't agree with the bill, it's full of Big-Bodied-Sh*t.  As far as how g*ys live their life, I'm gonna say it like this: if you think it's alright to be g*y, someone dropped the ball, in your development as a child...

 

Now I'll patiently await my banning from a moderator because I'm not a member of LBGT... :-/

No do you think that because of religion? or you just came to that on your own?

if religion do you think that others who have a different religion from you also "dropped the ball"? if you do must be hard being the only right religion. If not then remember there are many out there who have religions that have no problems with homosexuality or no religion at all.

while if you came to that on your own, then it's rather sad a person can come to that conclusion and may you not disown some future kid should they be gay.