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Who's TV plan is the best, Sony or MS

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ItNetPro said:
Machiavellian said:
elazz said:
Obviously the one with the best and most content and that is and will be Sony. The one needs a cable box and although Microsoft is receiving tv services via aps, the same is for Sony backed up with exclusive deals and their own huge library.

Why do you believe Sony will have the best and most content?  I am asking this question because people as yourself tend to believe this but I am not sure why.  Sony does not support at this time any cable TV apps.  Sony content is sold to the same cable companies and streaming services now.  Do people think Sony will stop doing this because that is huge revenue for the company.  At best, I can only see Sony matching content.


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Machiavellian said:
Normchacho said:

But it does allow you to have the content from several providers in one service rather than seperate apps for say nbc or fox or what have you. It also allows you to watch live tv, on deman programing, and even use a DVR. Sure some cable providers have apps that allow you to watch tv on your other devices but MS doesn't and a good number of the tv apps on the 360 are missing from the Xbox One. I don't see why people keep talking about the 360? The MS plan for tv on the Xbox One involes the HDMI in which does little more than allow you to watch tv without having to change the input on your tv.

When comparing Sony's tv plans to MS tv plans it's pretty obvious which its pretty obvious that the Sony plan is much more ambitious and as long as they don't screw anything up could be very sucessful.

@ Bolded: The TWC, Verizon Xfinity, Dish and DirectTV App do all of what you just mentioned without having to have a separate app for individual content providers like HBO, NBC etc.  What Sony is providing is no different from what is already provided by cable and Satellite providers now.

MS doesn't have to have an IPTV service because they will support or now support other services.  MS can distribute their content however they want without trying to compete in a very competitive space.  If Sony service does not have what I am looking for, then it cannot replace my existing setup nor will the PS3 or PS4 allow me to use my existing setup without having a cable box.  The reason I bring the 360 in the conversation is because those same Apps will be coming to the X1.  The partnerships MS has made with the cable companies did not disappear.  Since the X1 is a new device creating the Apps take some time.

@ 2nd Bolded:  This is incorrect.  The HDMI in is one part of a much bigger stragety.  Your vision is way to narrow.  MS stragety is to be the central box that controls delivery of all content within your living room.  The HDMI is a solution to control cable and other media that do not have an App within its eco system.

Sony plan isn't more ambitious its more risky.  Did you know that MS sold their IPTV to Mediaroom to Ericsson.  MS had a IPTV solution longer than Sony has been in the console business.  After fighting for media and licensing agreements etc, they decided to sell the business.


"Sure some cable providers have apps that allow you to watch tv on your other devices"

If you kept reading after the first bolded part you'd know I already said that.

Where have MS said that those TV apps are coming to the One? So far they have the Verizon app which has a maximum of 74 channels and that only works if you have Fios internet (not to mention some of the channels are locked behind payed packages even if you have Fios). They have also not come out and said that anymore apps will be added.

@2: Why haven't they said anything about greater TV functionality or compatibility? All they have talking about regarding watching tv has been the HDMI in for months. Unless you have some insider info that they haven't told anyone else about? Care to share with the rest of the class?

Of course it's more risky. They are moving into a very competitive market as you said. But it's also a very weak and flawed market. There are several well known issues with the current live tv market from pricing, to the UI, to the packaging structure. This puts Sony in a very unique position, if they can come to market with a strong content lineup and solve even a couple of the issues that current cable and satelite providers have it could be huge.

It's certainly more difficult than just piggybacking an app or allowing someone to plug there cable box into the back and if they don't have enough content or the pricing isn't right they could fall flat on there face. But as a concept and as a far as potential goes, it blows what MS (and actually most TV providers have) out of the water.



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Machiavellian said:
elazz said:
Obviously the one with the best and most content and that is and will be Sony. The one needs a cable box and although Microsoft is receiving tv services via aps, the same is for Sony backed up with exclusive deals and their own huge library.

Why do you believe Sony will have the best and most content?  I am asking this question because people as yourself tend to believe this but I am not sure why.  Sony does not support at this time any cable TV apps.  Sony content is sold to the same cable companies and streaming services now.  Do people think Sony will stop doing this because that is huge revenue for the company.  At best, I can only see Sony matching content.


Sonypictures isn't just James Bond and Spider-man. They have a big amount of a lot of old and new critically acclaimed and succesful series. Combine this with their partnership with Viacom and there older plans of actually becoming a distributor trough the internet and you'll know that they have enough content to get even more content creators supporting there new medium. There service in a package with Netflix and you don't need cable anymore, you'll have instant on-demand and live television. 

Viacom + Sony + Netflix + potential other:

Paramount pictures, television (relaunch last year) and animation

Sony pictures (check their movies and shows in history and today like Breaking Bad, the Blacklist and dozens more)

UIP: joint venture of Viacom and Universal

MTV+Nickelodeon

Netflix: can be integrated in the service for extra discounted subscription

+ the potential others and you have one of the biggest networks available worldwide so it seems

 

Sony can defintely pull it off to start something new. 



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PS4 will sell 25 million units before 31st of March!

Edit: I didn't state what year! HAHA, so I'm still right in some sense

Normchacho said:
Machiavellian said:
Normchacho said:

But it does allow you to have the content from several providers in one service rather than seperate apps for say nbc or fox or what have you. It also allows you to watch live tv, on deman programing, and even use a DVR. Sure some cable providers have apps that allow you to watch tv on your other devices but MS doesn't and a good number of the tv apps on the 360 are missing from the Xbox One. I don't see why people keep talking about the 360? The MS plan for tv on the Xbox One involes the HDMI in which does little more than allow you to watch tv without having to change the input on your tv.

When comparing Sony's tv plans to MS tv plans it's pretty obvious which its pretty obvious that the Sony plan is much more ambitious and as long as they don't screw anything up could be very sucessful.

@ Bolded: The TWC, Verizon Xfinity, Dish and DirectTV App do all of what you just mentioned without having to have a separate app for individual content providers like HBO, NBC etc.  What Sony is providing is no different from what is already provided by cable and Satellite providers now.

MS doesn't have to have an IPTV service because they will support or now support other services.  MS can distribute their content however they want without trying to compete in a very competitive space.  If Sony service does not have what I am looking for, then it cannot replace my existing setup nor will the PS3 or PS4 allow me to use my existing setup without having a cable box.  The reason I bring the 360 in the conversation is because those same Apps will be coming to the X1.  The partnerships MS has made with the cable companies did not disappear.  Since the X1 is a new device creating the Apps take some time.

@ 2nd Bolded:  This is incorrect.  The HDMI in is one part of a much bigger stragety.  Your vision is way to narrow.  MS stragety is to be the central box that controls delivery of all content within your living room.  The HDMI is a solution to control cable and other media that do not have an App within its eco system.

Sony plan isn't more ambitious its more risky.  Did you know that MS sold their IPTV to Mediaroom to Ericsson.  MS had a IPTV solution longer than Sony has been in the console business.  After fighting for media and licensing agreements etc, they decided to sell the business.


"Sure some cable providers have apps that allow you to watch tv on your other devices"

If you kept reading after the first bolded part you'd know I already said that.

Where have MS said that those TV apps are coming to the One? So far they have the Verizon app which has a maximum of 74 channels and that only works if you have Fios internet (not to mention some of the channels are locked behind payed packages even if you have Fios). They have also not come out and said that anymore apps will be added.

@2: Why haven't they said anything about greater TV functionality or compatibility? All they have talking about regarding watching tv has been the HDMI in for months. Unless you have some insider info that they haven't told anyone else about? Care to share with the rest of the class?

Of course it's more risky. They are moving into a very competitive market as you said. But it's also a very weak and flawed market. There are several well known issues with the current live tv market from pricing, to the UI, to the packaging structure. This puts Sony in a very unique position, if they can come to market with a strong content lineup and solve even a couple of the issues that current cable and satelite providers have it could be huge.

It's certainly more difficult than just piggybacking an app or allowing someone to plug there cable box into the back and if they don't have enough content or the pricing isn't right they could fall flat on there face. But as a concept and as a far as potential goes, it blows what MS (and actually most TV providers have) out of the water.

 The reason the Cable Apps are coming because MS has partnerships with those companies. In other words they have signed contracts which usually involves money changing hands for services.

@2:  They have, not sure if you keep up with such info but MS has been going on about their support for awhile.  Here is a statement from them in November.  I shorten it but if you want the full message as well as all the apps coming within the next few months you can go to this site.

http://www.comingsoon.net/news/gamenews.php?id=111179

Something truly unique we’re doing with Xbox One is bringing together your favorite TV channels and entertainment app channels into one screen. Xbox One is also the only games and entertainment system that enables HDMI pass through. You can create your own personal Favorites in OneGuide – the Xbox One electronic program guide – so you can quickly and easily choose what you want to watch, whether it’s a TV channel like CBS, NBC or ESPN, or something inside an app like Xbox Video, Hulu Plus or the NFL on Xbox One. You can even add your personal photos and videos from the SkyDrive app to your OneGuide Favorites.

Additionally, a Bing search for TV, movies, games, or music scans across all apps to find exactly what you’re looking for, instead of having to hunt through each app individually. For the first time, you don’t have to juggle multiple screens across cable TV, video streaming services and other entertainment apps to quickly find the entertainment you’re looking for.

Its not that the market is weak or flawed its the fact that it cost a lot of money to operate in that space and also make a profit.  The market is huge and the cable companies are the top dogs in the industry.  They pay huge amounts of money to content providers to provide the content. To think that Sony can run in the same space and not have to pay the same price is being naive.

One person talked about Sony making a deal with Viacon and thus getting their channels.  Why do you think bundling exist.  Its because these big content providers sell to the cable companies all of those stations as a package deal thus its cost effective for the cable companies to do the same and bundle channels to the consumer.  Do you think Sony will be able to split out the channels from Viacon and allow users to just pick the one they want for a cheaper price.  I am very doubtful this will happen.  It would mean that Sony could pontentiall lose money on each subscription to their service and thats the last thing Sony need is to be losing money.  There is no magic bullet in this space because of the price of entry.  MS, Apple and Google have tried and MS sold their business.  Apple has been trying for awhile and so has Google.

Sony is not an internet provider so what do you think if someone decides to go with their IPTV solution but they have Time Warner cable internet service.  Running an IPTV service will kill that person download cap thus getting them throttled.  Now your IPTV is a choppy mess.

Last but not least, people seem to think that Sony can change the industry but they are the industry.  Meaning that they are part of the reason why the industry is the way it is.  If MS, Apple and Google could not change the system, I am finding it very hard to see how Sony who isn't in the same league money wise as those companies can do the same.



elazz said:
Machiavellian said:
elazz said:
Obviously the one with the best and most content and that is and will be Sony. The one needs a cable box and although Microsoft is receiving tv services via aps, the same is for Sony backed up with exclusive deals and their own huge library.

Why do you believe Sony will have the best and most content?  I am asking this question because people as yourself tend to believe this but I am not sure why.  Sony does not support at this time any cable TV apps.  Sony content is sold to the same cable companies and streaming services now.  Do people think Sony will stop doing this because that is huge revenue for the company.  At best, I can only see Sony matching content.


Sonypictures isn't just James Bond and Spider-man. They have a big amount of a lot of old and new critically acclaimed and succesful series. Combine this with their partnership with Viacom and there older plans of actually becoming a distributor trough the internet and you'll know that they have enough content to get even more content creators supporting there new medium. There service in a package with Netflix and you don't need cable anymore, you'll have instant on-demand and live television. 

Viacom + Sony + Netflix + potential other:

Paramount pictures, television (relaunch last year) and animation

Sony pictures (check their movies and shows in history and today like Breaking Bad, the Blacklist and dozens more)

UIP: joint venture of Viacom and Universal

MTV+Nickelodeon

Netflix: can be integrated in the service for extra discounted subscription

+ the potential others and you have one of the biggest networks available worldwide so it seems

 

Sony can defintely pull it off to start something new. 

Do you think Sony will stop selling those channels to cable providers.  Do you think Sony will stop providing their movies and shows to Netflix and Hulu. HBO or showtime.  In other words as a content provider yes they have a lot of stuff but also as a content provider they need to sell it.  Other content providers are looking to sell their content at the highest price they can to the biggest customer base.  They do not care if Sony provide their own content.  

I do not understand why people believe because Sony sell content, other content providers will sell their stuff to them cheaper.  That sort of reasoning does not make business sense.  Its not like the other content providers are going to start selling Sony their stuff cheaper or stop selling to cable, satellite and streaming services because Sony want to enter the market.  Sony is not going to get a discount because they are Sony.

The other cable companies already do On Demand and live TV, there is no advantage you are getting with Sony service.

This is why I do not understand a lot of people reasoning.  Everyone is out to make money so there is no advantage for Sony in this space.  Actually Sony is at a very big disadvantage because they do not have any subscribers.  Cable companies have contracts and subscribers for leverage and pull when negotiating price for content.  Sony does not have this leverage so they could potentially be paying a higher price.

Last but not least, MS had a deal with Viacom since 2007, here is the link 

 

http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/news/press/2007/dec07/12-19viacomcontentpr.aspx



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Machiavellian said:
Normchacho said:
Machiavellian said:
Normchacho said:

But it does allow you to have the content from several providers in one service rather than seperate apps for say nbc or fox or what have you. It also allows you to watch live tv, on deman programing, and even use a DVR. Sure some cable providers have apps that allow you to watch tv on your other devices but MS doesn't and a good number of the tv apps on the 360 are missing from the Xbox One. I don't see why people keep talking about the 360? The MS plan for tv on the Xbox One involes the HDMI in which does little more than allow you to watch tv without having to change the input on your tv.

When comparing Sony's tv plans to MS tv plans it's pretty obvious which its pretty obvious that the Sony plan is much more ambitious and as long as they don't screw anything up could be very sucessful.

@ Bolded: The TWC, Verizon Xfinity, Dish and DirectTV App do all of what you just mentioned without having to have a separate app for individual content providers like HBO, NBC etc.  What Sony is providing is no different from what is already provided by cable and Satellite providers now.

MS doesn't have to have an IPTV service because they will support or now support other services.  MS can distribute their content however they want without trying to compete in a very competitive space.  If Sony service does not have what I am looking for, then it cannot replace my existing setup nor will the PS3 or PS4 allow me to use my existing setup without having a cable box.  The reason I bring the 360 in the conversation is because those same Apps will be coming to the X1.  The partnerships MS has made with the cable companies did not disappear.  Since the X1 is a new device creating the Apps take some time.

@ 2nd Bolded:  This is incorrect.  The HDMI in is one part of a much bigger stragety.  Your vision is way to narrow.  MS stragety is to be the central box that controls delivery of all content within your living room.  The HDMI is a solution to control cable and other media that do not have an App within its eco system.

Sony plan isn't more ambitious its more risky.  Did you know that MS sold their IPTV to Mediaroom to Ericsson.  MS had a IPTV solution longer than Sony has been in the console business.  After fighting for media and licensing agreements etc, they decided to sell the business.


"Sure some cable providers have apps that allow you to watch tv on your other devices"

If you kept reading after the first bolded part you'd know I already said that.

Where have MS said that those TV apps are coming to the One? So far they have the Verizon app which has a maximum of 74 channels and that only works if you have Fios internet (not to mention some of the channels are locked behind payed packages even if you have Fios). They have also not come out and said that anymore apps will be added.

@2: Why haven't they said anything about greater TV functionality or compatibility? All they have talking about regarding watching tv has been the HDMI in for months. Unless you have some insider info that they haven't told anyone else about? Care to share with the rest of the class?

Of course it's more risky. They are moving into a very competitive market as you said. But it's also a very weak and flawed market. There are several well known issues with the current live tv market from pricing, to the UI, to the packaging structure. This puts Sony in a very unique position, if they can come to market with a strong content lineup and solve even a couple of the issues that current cable and satelite providers have it could be huge.

It's certainly more difficult than just piggybacking an app or allowing someone to plug there cable box into the back and if they don't have enough content or the pricing isn't right they could fall flat on there face. But as a concept and as a far as potential goes, it blows what MS (and actually most TV providers have) out of the water.

 The reason the Cable Apps are coming because MS has partnerships with those companies. In other words they have signed contracts which usually involves money changing hands for services.

@2:  They have, not sure if you keep up with such info but MS has been going on about their support for awhile.  Here is a statement from them in November.  I shorten it but if you want the full message as well as all the apps coming within the next few months you can go to this site.

http://www.comingsoon.net/news/gamenews.php?id=111179

Something truly unique we’re doing with Xbox One is bringing together your favorite TV channels and entertainment app channels into one screen. Xbox One is also the only games and entertainment system that enables HDMI pass through. You can create your own personal Favorites in OneGuide – the Xbox One electronic program guide – so you can quickly and easily choose what you want to watch, whether it’s a TV channel like CBS, NBC or ESPN, or something inside an app like Xbox Video, Hulu Plus or the NFL on Xbox One. You can even add your personal photos and videos from the SkyDrive app to your OneGuide Favorites.

Additionally, a Bing search for TV, movies, games, or music scans across all apps to find exactly what you’re looking for, instead of having to hunt through each app individually. For the first time, you don’t have to juggle multiple screens across cable TV, video streaming services and other entertainment apps to quickly find the entertainment you’re looking for.

Its not that the market is weak or flawed its the fact that it cost a lot of money to operate in that space and also make a profit.  The market is huge and the cable companies are the top dogs in the industry.  They pay huge amounts of money to content providers to provide the content. To think that Sony can run in the same space and not have to pay the same price is being naive.

One person talked about Sony making a deal with Viacon and thus getting their channels.  Why do you think bundling exist.  Its because these big content providers sell to the cable companies all of those stations as a package deal thus its cost effective for the cable companies to do the same and bundle channels to the consumer.  Do you think Sony will be able to split out the channels from Viacon and allow users to just pick the one they want for a cheaper price.  I am very doubtful this will happen.  It would mean that Sony could pontentiall lose money on each subscription to their service and thats the last thing Sony need is to be losing money.  There is no magic bullet in this space because of the price of entry.  MS, Apple and Google have tried and MS sold their business.  Apple has been trying for awhile and so has Google.

Sony is not an internet provider so what do you think if someone decides to go with their IPTV solution but they have Time Warner cable internet service.  Running an IPTV service will kill that person download cap thus getting them throttled.  Now your IPTV is a choppy mess.

Last but not least, people seem to think that Sony can change the industry but they are the industry.  Meaning that they are part of the reason why the industry is the way it is.  If MS, Apple and Google could not change the system, I am finding it very hard to see how Sony who isn't in the same league money wise as those companies can do the same.

 

That doesn't specifically mean that those apps are coming mostly because it doesn't specifically say that more web based TV apps are on the way. But even if they do it still isn't really the same as what Sony is planning.

The market is certainly weak. Pay-TV companies are losing 10's (and sometimes 100's) of thousands of subscribers a quarter. For instance, Comcast who is the largest Cable provider in the country lost 348,000 subscribers in the first 3 quarters of 2013. On the flipside, internet subs are up for pretty much everyone.

The industry is in trouble. Things have been going south since 2008 and have not rebounded with the economy. The losses continue to accelerate and content providers know this and are looking for ways to stop the decline. Sony offers them a new way to get there content into viewers homes. But in order for it to work it can't just be another cable service. They can't just push out a carbon copy of a normal cable system and expect things to be fine so it's totally reasonable to expect them to offer channels in a new way or at a better price. At the very least it would also give consumers a choice instead of being stuck with just one or two options when picking a cable company.

As far as data caps go that's going to be an issue for anyone using Netflicks or Hulu aswell but it hasn't stopped them from gaining huge numbers of subscribers. 

The market has also changed a lot since MS or Apple tried to get involved and so has the available technology. Google is still trying to get into TV and is actually taking a similar approach to Sony so far. Although they don't appear to be having the same success as they currently don't have any deals in place.

There are still a ton of questions we don't have the answers to and there are plenty of obsticals that need to be overcome. But if Sony has figured it out than they certainly have the userbase and the know-how to make it into something big.



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The No Fun League app is on xbo if thats your thing.

Personally I just use netflix and amazon vids and that plays great on ps4 for me.



 

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Sega


At the time I would probably buy it... I were new and stupid.



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