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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - In some cases, It's not Nintendo's fault (3rd Party support)

orniletter on 28 October 2013
pokoko said:
orniletter said:
pokoko said:

What on earth are you talking about?  For it to be an extension of my logic, it would have to have some relation to what I actually said.  Where did I say anything at all about abandoning the Wii U?  The topic is late ports costing more than the versions on other systems.  Some people were acting as if this somehow hurts the publisher; all I did was say that it probably doesn't hurt them at all.  I didn't even say I liked it.

So, yeah, what are you talking about?

 excuse my sharp tone.

My bad !

No problem.  I'm not going to hold a misunderstanding against someone.  I understand what you're talking about, it just wasn't something I was addressing there.

Nah, I was pretty dickish and jumped to conclusions, you are right btw.

...guess I haven´t fully reached the "acceptance stage" yet...



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Damian.W on 28 October 2013
oniyide said:
Damian.W said:

The largest issue is exactly what you stated. I'm a PS3 owner who bought the Wii U day 1 because of games like Zombiu, Ghost Recon (shelved) and the fact that I can play off-screen. And what annoys me is when 3rd parties complain that their multi-plat games aren't selling well. Well of course not, half your games are already on other consoles for lower prices and have more features.

 

I already had AC3 and Black Ops 2, because AC3 came out earlier, and Black Ops had a larger online service on PS3. Sniper V2 and Deus Ex: DC priced at $50? for the same price I could get V2 on PC with dlc and the nazi zombie missions. For $30, I could get directers cut on PS3 with the same content, just no touch interface. 


So then whats the solution? If they dont make these ports then people will complain that they dont get support. Or should they continue and keep having the games underperform?

Nothing. The Wii U is selling badly. You either make a game for it, or you don't. I don't mind it when the Wii U gets a more expesnive version of a game with jsut as much, if less, content as other consoles. What annoys me is when these companies complain that people aren't buying these games. 

Maybe I'm just bad at explaining. Monster Hunter sold almost 500k (more with digital), despite being more populare on the 3ds. This is becasue the game offered online, upscaled resolution, and large screen gaming, more content than 3ds. Considering the attach ratio, it sold well, and even capcom said it was a smash hit. 

Lego City: Undercover was exclusive to the console (aside from 3ds) and had the interest of gamers to buy it as a lego version of GTA. Again, attach ratios considered, it sold well for a new ip.

Games like Ac3 and BO2 sold about 200k because they were already available on other consoles with larger userbases. The fact they sold anything is a feat. So make games for the Wii U , price it what you want, but keep the production values as low as possible. A console with barely over 3.5 m users won't net you a profit if you expect everyone to buy it. 



I <3 Classic Platformers!

Multi-console Owner FTW

ListerOfSmeg on 28 October 2013
pokoko said:
ListerOfSmeg said:
pokoko said:
I'm not really sure why this is so often presented as something that only happens to Nintendo when it has happened elsewhere, as well.

Regardless, let's take Deus Ex. Let's assume that everyone who owns a Wii U who also owns a PS3/360 decides to buy the game on the latter because of the price tag. What has Square Enix lost? A few of those who don't have a PS3/360 will buy it at $50, while a few more will wait until the price is reduced. Again, what has the publisher lost?

If you don't like the price, then wait. It's what everyone else does when a game is released.


That is really simple, they lose money and consumer confidence. I know you hate Nintendo but come on.

I dont have a PS3 or 360 but I am not paying more for the same product and will be less likely to buy from them, whether its on PC or Wii U.

... they're not losing money, that's the point.  As far as consumer confidence, most gamers don't even keep up with who publishes what.  The only people outraged are the forum-goers who get outraged about everything.  The average person isn't writing Square and other publishers into an anti-Nintendo Death Note.

As far as me hating Nintendo, stop it.  The only thing I dislike is that persecution complex some Nintendo fans seem to revel in, even when the same thing has happened on other platforms numerous times.

 Sure some people own a Wii U and a PS360 but some people do not. Not everyone is going to blindly pay out 20.00 more for the same product and in that case, the company doesnt make money.
I could buy this game on PC but I am not buying it on either because its wrong to do consumers that way. That is what people my age do because we have integrity and self respect.

 

" The topic is late ports costing more than the versions on other systems.  Some people were acting as if this somehow hurts the publisher; all I did was say that it probably doesn't hurt them at all.  "

So it went from, they dont lose money at all and that is fact, to they probably do not lose money at all.

Had you said that to begin with I would actually respect your opinion but you started by arguing something you cannot back up as fact.

 

Also, since you say this happens all the time, it should be easy for you to give 5 clear examples of it being done on other platforms.

 



pokoko on 28 October 2013
ListerOfSmeg said:
pokoko said:
ListerOfSmeg said:
pokoko said:
I'm not really sure why this is so often presented as something that only happens to Nintendo when it has happened elsewhere, as well.

Regardless, let's take Deus Ex. Let's assume that everyone who owns a Wii U who also owns a PS3/360 decides to buy the game on the latter because of the price tag. What has Square Enix lost? A few of those who don't have a PS3/360 will buy it at $50, while a few more will wait until the price is reduced. Again, what has the publisher lost?

If you don't like the price, then wait. It's what everyone else does when a game is released.


That is really simple, they lose money and consumer confidence. I know you hate Nintendo but come on.

I dont have a PS3 or 360 but I am not paying more for the same product and will be less likely to buy from them, whether its on PC or Wii U.

... they're not losing money, that's the point.  As far as consumer confidence, most gamers don't even keep up with who publishes what.  The only people outraged are the forum-goers who get outraged about everything.  The average person isn't writing Square and other publishers into an anti-Nintendo Death Note.

As far as me hating Nintendo, stop it.  The only thing I dislike is that persecution complex some Nintendo fans seem to revel in, even when the same thing has happened on other platforms numerous times.

 Sure some people own a Wii U and a PS360 but some people do not. Not everyone is going to blindly pay out 20.00 more for the same product and in that case, the company doesnt make money.
I could buy this game on PC but I am not buying it on either because its wrong to do consumers that way. That is what people my age do because we have integrity and self respect.

 

" The topic is late ports costing more than the versions on other systems.  Some people were acting as if this somehow hurts the publisher; all I did was say that it probably doesn't hurt them at all.  "

So it went from, they dont lose money at all and that is fact, to they probably do not lose money at all.

Had you said that to begin with I would actually respect your opinion but you started by arguing something you cannot back up as fact.

 

Also, since you say this happens all the time, it should be easy for you to give 5 clear examples of it being done on other platforms.

 

I'm not going to look it up for you, but off the top of my head I can remember Mass Effect 2, BioShock, Ninja Gaiden II, and Castle Crashers.  I remember being ticked off that Mass Effect 2 on the PS3 cost $60.  Actually, I think someone already made a post listing a bunch of timed exclusives in this thread.

And you still don't seem to actually read everything I write.  "A few of those who don't have a PS3/360 will buy it at $50, while a few more will wait until the price is reduced. Again, what has the publisher lost?"  The only lost sales are those who pout over video-games and refuse to buy even after the price sinks down to $15.  Believe it or not, people who actually get upset over videogames are few and far between.  From what I can see, those who will bite at $50 will more than off-set those who boycott.



oniyide on 29 October 2013
Damian.W said:
oniyide said:
Damian.W said:

The largest issue is exactly what you stated. I'm a PS3 owner who bought the Wii U day 1 because of games like Zombiu, Ghost Recon (shelved) and the fact that I can play off-screen. And what annoys me is when 3rd parties complain that their multi-plat games aren't selling well. Well of course not, half your games are already on other consoles for lower prices and have more features.

 

I already had AC3 and Black Ops 2, because AC3 came out earlier, and Black Ops had a larger online service on PS3. Sniper V2 and Deus Ex: DC priced at $50? for the same price I could get V2 on PC with dlc and the nazi zombie missions. For $30, I could get directers cut on PS3 with the same content, just no touch interface. 


So then whats the solution? If they dont make these ports then people will complain that they dont get support. Or should they continue and keep having the games underperform?

Nothing. The Wii U is selling badly. You either make a game for it, or you don't. I don't mind it when the Wii U gets a more expesnive version of a game with jsut as much, if less, content as other consoles. What annoys me is when these companies complain that people aren't buying these games. 

Maybe I'm just bad at explaining. Monster Hunter sold almost 500k (more with digital), despite being more populare on the 3ds. This is becasue the game offered online, upscaled resolution, and large screen gaming, more content than 3ds. Considering the attach ratio, it sold well, and even capcom said it was a smash hit. 

Lego City: Undercover was exclusive to the console (aside from 3ds) and had the interest of gamers to buy it as a lego version of GTA. Again, attach ratios considered, it sold well for a new ip.

Games like Ac3 and BO2 sold about 200k because they were already available on other consoles with larger userbases. The fact they sold anything is a feat. So make games for the Wii U , price it what you want, but keep the production values as low as possible. A console with barely over 3.5 m users won't net you a profit if you expect everyone to buy it. 


ok that sounds pretty fair.

as for the complaining i think its in response to some Ninty fans complaining about not getting games or whatever



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Damian.W on 29 October 2013
oniyide said:
Damian.W said:
oniyide said:
Damian.W said:

The largest issue is exactly what you stated. I'm a PS3 owner who bought the Wii U day 1 because of games like Zombiu, Ghost Recon (shelved) and the fact that I can play off-screen. And what annoys me is when 3rd parties complain that their multi-plat games aren't selling well. Well of course not, half your games are already on other consoles for lower prices and have more features.

 

I already had AC3 and Black Ops 2, because AC3 came out earlier, and Black Ops had a larger online service on PS3. Sniper V2 and Deus Ex: DC priced at $50? for the same price I could get V2 on PC with dlc and the nazi zombie missions. For $30, I could get directers cut on PS3 with the same content, just no touch interface. 


So then whats the solution? If they dont make these ports then people will complain that they dont get support. Or should they continue and keep having the games underperform?

Nothing. The Wii U is selling badly. You either make a game for it, or you don't. I don't mind it when the Wii U gets a more expesnive version of a game with jsut as much, if less, content as other consoles. What annoys me is when these companies complain that people aren't buying these games. 

Maybe I'm just bad at explaining. Monster Hunter sold almost 500k (more with digital), despite being more populare on the 3ds. This is becasue the game offered online, upscaled resolution, and large screen gaming, more content than 3ds. Considering the attach ratio, it sold well, and even capcom said it was a smash hit. 

Lego City: Undercover was exclusive to the console (aside from 3ds) and had the interest of gamers to buy it as a lego version of GTA. Again, attach ratios considered, it sold well for a new ip.

Games like Ac3 and BO2 sold about 200k because they were already available on other consoles with larger userbases. The fact they sold anything is a feat. So make games for the Wii U , price it what you want, but keep the production values as low as possible. A console with barely over 3.5 m users won't net you a profit if you expect everyone to buy it. 


ok that sounds pretty fair.

as for the complaining i think its in response to some Ninty fans complaining about not getting games or whatever


That would make sense too. 



I <3 Classic Platformers!

Multi-console Owner FTW

JazzB1987 on 29 October 2013

Everyone saying that its not Nintendos or its fans fault is WRONG.



Console hardware:
Nintendo had a huge success with the super powerful N64 and Gamecube. The systems were so powerful that noone could resist and everyone made a ton of games. Just look at all the great games on N64 and GC  like  Final Fantasy you know all the numbers between 6 and 7  and all the games between the numbers 9 and 10.

The 3DS and prior to it the DS with its crippled hardware had 0 ZERO/NILL /NULL/NO  third party support at all. Its because they are basically a PS2 and PS1 10 years to late. And even the crappy PS1 and PS2 (crappy in terms of hardware) had no third party games at all. Just pathetic weak toys.....

Only super poweful hardware like the Dreamcast that came out in 1998 is successful!

_____
COD/Activision:
Call of Duty is for real gamers not Nintendo gamers.
COD3 selling identical on Wii vs 360 even tho 360 was out a year earlier shows that COD never had a future on this baby console.

COD4 Modern Warfare (the game that started the COD hype) being 1 year late is also no reason the franchise never established itself on the system. Its just because Nintendos console was shit and the gamers are unsmart. I mean there is no reason to not buy a Wii version when you already bought a PS360 version because there was just no Wii version right?

Also everyone knows that if the Nintendo gamers and Nintendo itself would care about poor Activision then a huge COD fanbase would have been established no matter if some COD games skipped Nintendo systems or not I mean we all know COD is a pure single player game that does not need to be established at all to have a community. No cod gamer needs a community. No gamer does! Communities are NEVER a selling point!
Its the Nintendo COD communities own fault for breaking apart when there is no games. I mean just look at todays huge Wreckin Crew community!  Its thriving!

AND FULL HD BlackOps2 WiiU which was HD READY EVEN THO IT WAS "FULL HD"  selling just half as good (in sold copies/console ratio) than the PS3 version means that the game failed on WiiU...... lacking features  no established community etc are OF COURSE no reason for this.... dont mention the WiiU extra 10bucks price tag... 70 bucks is CHEAP!!!

______
Mass Effect/EA:
Everyone knows that having a MassEffect 3 with some dia show comic is more value than MassEffect 1+2+3 on competitors consoles also WiiU version being priced at 69.99 is of course not a problem...
Its like wondering why a mediocre port of Metal Gear Solid on 3DS failed even tho there was a HD collection announced for the same price. Only fools would not buy a game with worse value... consumers these days....
_____
Rayman/ZombiU/Ubisoft:
Rayman:
Everyone knows that hyping up your own Rayman game so people are really looking forward to a great exclusive that will come out in a time when there is software drought and then suddenly  delaying it for months  and disappointing fans is the best way to strengthen the bond between dev/publisher and gamers.

You know its like (fe)males that make themselves "rare" so people of the other sex  have even more interest because they believe the other person has more value and is important. C'EST LA LOGIQUE PURE!(its pure logic!) You know they are french they are romantic they know their shit when it comes to flirting etc!

ZombiU:
Also being disappointed in a low budget WiiU (1 platform) title like ZombiU that launches with a console with 0 install base because it just sold 500k and than saying NO SEQUEL because part 1 was not even close in making profit -which means that you expected at least 1 million sold copies- makes sense.

On the other hand.. just EXPECTING (which means generate acceptable profit!) 6.3 million sales from a high profile/high budget title like WatchDogs that launches on
now 3.5m WiiUs (remember on launch day when ZombiU release the userbase was exactly 0)
??m PCs
2 next gen consoles
and 160 million PS360s makes sense right?

lets pretend you want just 1 milion sold copies (of a high budget title) per new console to break even (that wont work since ZombiU needs that much right?)

But in case thats what you want:
expected 6.3m - 1m(x1) -1m(ps4) = 4.3 m 
This means you expect a new high budget title to just sell 4.3m copies on 80m PS3s + 80m 360s + 3.5m WiiUs and ??m PCs.

OF COURSE ZombiU WAS A FINANCIAL FAILURE!!!!!!!!  Stupid Nintendo+fans.... they are not even able to buy 1m ZombiU games on 3m+ consoles...... how dare they didnt want to buy the game for AGAIN $69.99€

_____
EVERYONE:

"Hiding" or not adding Wii/WiiU versions to your commercials even tho the game is available on the system should boost sales right? So why dont the Wii/WiiU versions sell....

I still dont understand why so many WiiU owners didnt buy the launch $70 /70€ price tag games. I mean the competition's fans just had to pay 59.99 but still...

Why dont WiiU owners buy up to 3 year old ports?
Why dont WiiU owners buy lazy ports that are not even optimized?
Why dont WiiU owners buy games that lack online modes?
Why dont WiiU owners buy games that are only delayed on WiiU?
Why dont WiiU owners buy games that wont get DLC?
Why dont WiiU owners buy  WHATEVER????


I also dont understand why WiiU owners stop buying games when the publishers and devs insult them?  (like EA did? Its not a reason to not buy some old NFS game)

I mean you could say that insulting them equals acknowledgment. So they should actually feel flattered that others notice their pathetic existence right?

Its really sad that even companies like Sega, that supported Nintendo hardware and never insulted Nintendo gamers during the last 12 years, a company that  made perfect ports that even added great stuff like 5 player mode in Sonic Allstars Racing Transformed are so totally unsuccessful on WiiU that game didnt even sell once  sad sad.......

Its  purely Nintendo's + their fans fault for being used to TOTALLY UNPOLISHED games. Third party quality is so "alien" to Nintendo gamers they feel intimidated.

So thats all I had to say about this issue. As you can see its clearly NOT the fault of third parties. Nintendo is imune  to advice just look at the great advice from Atari guys. Their company never failed and Nintendo still ignores them....



TripleMMM on 29 October 2013
JazzB1987 said:

Everyone saying that its not Nintendos or its fans fault is WRONG.



(Best comment ever! XD)




 And proud member of the Mega Mario Movement!
Juma009 on 30 October 2013

Maybe Nintendo fans arent buying some third party games because they are 2-3 year old ports, so chances are they already played them.
Lets see how Arkham Origins, COD Ghosts do now, released at same time.