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Superman Vs. Vegetto

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Kasz216 said:

 

2) Except rocks apparently... and realy... any objects.  Characters with higher powerlevels shrug off KI attacks from weaker opponents.  They rarely if ever shrug off physical attacks from weaker characters.   Goku with Jace is an example, but in general, weaker characters always get off a few physical attacks that noticeably hurt the opponent.  Not much because they're stronger, but it hurts more then their energy blasts, despite the fact that they are REALLY weak physically in comparison.

For example, Goku in SSJ4 struggling with a building.  Not exactly planet busting level strength.  Let alone moon busting strength.


We're talking about Vegetto here, not about the (non-canon) SSJ4 Goku from the (non-canon) Dragon Ball GT. Vegetto got zero damage from Gohan-Boo, and he never used his full strength/power in that battle.

He was the end-game Dragon Ball character. Thousands of times stronger than Goku himself on any form. That's why the fusion got ended so quickly, because his power would break the plot. He was fanservice. Stupidly insane amounts of battle power-fanservice.

Again, all the different incarnations of Supes might regularly beat Goku, but not Vegetto. Only Supes that would beat Vegetto would be the Prime, and because he's an omnipotent God.



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McDonaldsGuy said:
Think about it this way.... Superman's archnemesises are a crazy mad scientist CEO, an alien brain, and a robot.

Goku's main enemies include a demon clansman, the prince of a warrior race, the ruler of the universe, a being whose cells are made up of the strongest beings ever, and a monster who can destroy a galaxy for the lulz...

Is this even a debate? People say BATMAN, a nutjob who dresses up as a bat to fight clowns, can beat Superman, but the martial arts legendary Super Saiyan Goku cannot? Give me a break.


You're speaking my language.



McDonaldsGuy said:
Think about it this way.... Superman's archnemesises are a crazy mad scientist CEO, an alien brain, and a robot.

Goku's main enemies include a demon clansman, the prince of a warrior race, the ruler of the universe, a being whose cells are made up of the strongest beings ever, and a monster who can destroy a galaxy for the lulz...

Is this even a debate? People say BATMAN, a nutjob who dresses up as a bat to fight clowns, can beat Superman, but the martial arts legendary Super Saiyan Goku cannot? Give me a break.


And Goku constantly gets owned by



Kasz216 said:
ShinmenTakezo said:
Kasz216 said:
ShinmenTakezo said:
 

 

Wolverine has fought the Hulk on many occasions, and Hulk doesn't destroy him. Wolverine has beat the hulk. If you take the feats Wolverine has accomplished, he could beat spidey........... in reality.....LOL. We're talking about fictional characters, with nonexistent abilities, in a made up universe that has its own set of rules seperate from ours, there is no "in reality," it is all just speculation and opinion. Wolverine has to be around Luke Cage's strength level (imo), but is portrayed as having barely above human level strength.

If you want to go by what is generally shown power wise, then you just proved yourself wrong. DBZ characters are consistently portrayed as invulnerable against anything not at their power level. Even physical things like guns augment power levels in the DBZ universe.

You contradict yourself with trying to compare real science with DC universe science when you yourself said real world science is irrelevant in a discussion on DC universe science. I'm refering to your speed force argument.

This is just a question, but wouldn't it be theoretically impossible to have a black hole with infinite gravity? I heard that a back hole can only consume a certain amount of matter and its based on its own mass, I think. I was watching something on Discovery about black holes. If a black hole had infinite gravity, then wouldn't the whole universe colapse into it? There are different size black holes with different feeding cycles. Hell, there is a black hole at the center of every galaxy. Wouldn't we all be sucked into the black holes if they had infinite gravity? Wouldn't they all be the same size and mass since all black holes have infinite gravity?


1) Actually yes.  Hulk does destroy Wolverine.  Have you ever even read those comics?  Hulk pretty much smacks wolverine way with attacks that would kill people.  Wolverine like slashes him once or twice, Hulk heals, then hulk keeps beating him down.

He has never beaten Hulk in 616 continutiy.  Maybe in the Ultiamte universe or something.  (Though i thought ultimate wolverine got ripped in half by hulk.)


Wolverine has always been wildly outclassed by the hulk and only puts up the showings he does because... Hulk is stupid/writers forget wolverine can be knocked out.

He couldn't even beat Mr. Fixit hulk.  Who was the weakest hulk.  (Hulk unlike superman had actual well defined different versions.)

Wolverine definitly does not have Luke Cage strength.

http://hulkcollection.wordpress.com/2011/11/06/hulk-vs-wolverine-through-the-years/

Seems to list them all, and their isn't a single Wolverine victory.  The best showing he seems to have is juking enough to where he barely gets hit before the figh breaks out.  (Though Wolverine has no way to actually put the hulk down.)

 

2) Except rocks apparently... and realy... any objects.  Characters with higher powerlevels shrug off KI attacks from weaker opponents.  They rarely if ever shrug off physical attacks from weaker characters.   Goku with Jace is an example, but in general, weaker characters always get off a few physical attacks that noticeably hurt the opponent.  Not much because they're stronger, but it hurts more then their energy blasts, despite the fact that they are REALLY weak physically in comparison.

For example, Goku in SSJ4 struggling with a building.  Not exactly planet busting level strength.  Let alone moon busting strength.


Like I said, Hulk has fought Wolverine many times and he wasn't a push over. I thought he won at least once, but I must have been thinking about the time he cut the Hulks chest open. You need to read your own link, Wolverine does a lot more than juking.

I said imo Wolverine has Luke Cage strength, but he is portrayed as having above human level strength. Keywords "imo" and "portrayed as." The reason I think he has to have around Luke Cage level strength is because of the things he does with his claws. No matter what his claws are made of, he still has to have the strength to push/swing through whatever sustance he's trying to cut. Lets say you have a diamond sword and you want to cut a steel beam. Wolverine would be able to cut the steel in one stroke, pretty much regardless of thickness. You or I wouldn't be able to do anything but put a knick (don't know if that is the correct spelling) in it. That is because we don't posess nearly enough strength to hack through it in one swing. Wolverine would need to be exponentially stronger than a human to be able to cut through any sustance other than adamantium and a vibranium adamantium alloy.

Even though Hulk has had those different versions, each versions strength has varied per writer. His strength differences are easily explained because of his power or power source.

Here's a couple links to show you that DBZ characters' physical durability is augmented by their ki.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ikPh3xXhx7c

I think blocking a sword with one finger, that was just used to slice up your once greatest foe, shows a little enhanced durability.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tYB02BUM-gQ

Fast forward to about 4:45 then tell me Cell didn't shrug that kick off.

Your rock theory is flawed. The Krillin rock thing was just a filler episode in the anime. It wasn't official canon. It never happened in the manga. Gohan being afraid of a rock being thrown by a ssj is believable. Let someone whip a clump of cooked maccaroni at you at close range as hard as they can and tell me it doesn't hurt. If you fell into a pile of noodles it wouldn't hurt, getting it thrown at you full force would. A drop of water is deadly if it is moving fast enough.

SSJ4 isn't official canon, I don't think it exists in Toriyama's universe. Anything that happened in GT isn't official canon.



Kasz216 said:
ShinmenTakezo said:
Kasz216 said:
ShinmenTakezo said:
 

 

B2) Any scientist will tell you the center of a blackhole = infintie density.  Infinite Gravity too...

http://imagine.gsfc.nasa.gov/docs/ask_astro/answers/010912a.html

makes 400X earth's gravity look downright silly.

Density isn't the same as gravity and isn't directly related to gravity in any way. Also I think it is impossible to have infinite density because density is the measurement of the amount of matter in a given space. density=mass/volume. You can't have an infinite amount of matter in a defined amount of space. That matter, once it gets to a certain point is going to require more space.

Gravity is directly related to an objects mass. Therefore if you have a defined mass, you will have a defined gravitational force. That means you can't have infinite gravity without infinte mass. You can't have infinite mass without infinite space. I am no scientist, but this is the conclusion I come to using the science I have learned.

That's all well and good.  Except the astrophysisit in the link i posted disagrees with you.

(They mention the whole infinite gravity thing there too.


He's talking about the singularity in the center of a black hole, not the black holes themselves. A singularity is a point in space, not an object like a black hole is. Black Holes have a defined mass and occupy a defined space. We know how to measure the mass of a black hole. We have different classifications of black holes based on their mass. There is none of that for singularities because we don't know what they are. I don't know if that link can be considered right seeing as a singularity isn't governed by our laws of physics. We don't know what laws govern it, so we don't know what it is or what it is made of. Your link is an educated guess, but just that, a guess.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_holes

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravitational_singularity



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I think this thread is missing some Vegetto goodness.



ShinmenTakezo said:
Kasz216 said:
ShinmenTakezo said:
Kasz216 said:
ShinmenTakezo said:
 

 

B2) Any scientist will tell you the center of a blackhole = infintie density.  Infinite Gravity too...

http://imagine.gsfc.nasa.gov/docs/ask_astro/answers/010912a.html

makes 400X earth's gravity look downright silly.

Density isn't the same as gravity and isn't directly related to gravity in any way. Also I think it is impossible to have infinite density because density is the measurement of the amount of matter in a given space. density=mass/volume. You can't have an infinite amount of matter in a defined amount of space. That matter, once it gets to a certain point is going to require more space.

Gravity is directly related to an objects mass. Therefore if you have a defined mass, you will have a defined gravitational force. That means you can't have infinite gravity without infinte mass. You can't have infinite mass without infinite space. I am no scientist, but this is the conclusion I come to using the science I have learned.

That's all well and good.  Except the astrophysisit in the link i posted disagrees with you.

(They mention the whole infinite gravity thing there too.


He's talking about the singularity in the center of a black hole, not the black holes themselves. A singularity is a point in space, not an object like a black hole is. Black Holes have a defined mass and occupy a defined space. We know how to measure the mass of a black hole. We have different classifications of black holes based on their mass. There is none of that for singularities because we don't know what they are. I don't know if that link can be considered right seeing as a singularity isn't governed by our laws of physics. We don't know what laws govern it, so we don't know what it is or what it is made of. Your link is an educated guess, but just that, a guess.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_holes

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravitational_singularity

Plus Black Holes in comic books only have like 100 times earth's gravity or something like that...not at all like real life.

Even in "Futurama", they used an escape pod from the Titanic space ship cruise, and they got sucked into a black hole, but losing 1 robot made them light enough for the tiny rockets on the escape pod to escape the black hole they where already being sucked into.

Black Holes in Comic Books & cartoons aren't the same in gravity & so fort, then black holes in real life.

Plus isn't Superman's flying power explained as him just controlling his own gravity? Which means he could just make his own gravity infinite at a faster rate if he was facing a Black Hole in real life. But he only escapes fictional black holes like the ones in Cartoons & Comic Books, so it doesn't matter anyways.



"DBZ Physical attacks weren't ever really shown to be all that powerful. They're no stronger then what any average Class 100 Marvel brawler can do."

Not true at all, base Goku in the Namek Saga kicked Frieza and he went through one mountain, through the island, across into the island and smashed that mountain.

Gotenks whacked Buu turn into the Earth and made a huge crater like a meterorite.

Gotenks Buu punched Gohan's blast straight throught the planet and out the other end.

"Remember when krillin hits a sleeping Goku with a rock and goku freaks out like someone had just broken his leg. In general, you go by what's more consinstantly shown. Is Super Saiyan Goku really so weak that a rock will hurt him?"

No because that was just filler.