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Forums - Politics Discussion - USA's most predominate Roman Catholic State just passed Marriage Equality (Same Sex Marriage)

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Zappykins on 02 May 2013
Zkuq said:
killerzX said:
its not marriage equality. its homosexual couples marriage.

anyway, i just wish the state would get out of marriage. its not the governments job.

This. I do disagree with the second statement, though. Marriage has a legal side as well, and legal matters belong to the government. It's kind of another matter if you wish to strip away the legal side from marriage.

Yes, and no.

There are some rights in the USA that Only come from marriage - and even though it is legal in 10 states + DC, those couples still are missing something like 15,000 Federal rights, including the 5th amendment to the US Constitution, that ONLY come from marriage.

As long as everyone has full access to the same legal civil rights I'm cool it.

Note - there are still some Church that DO NOT allow mixed race marriages, but the government can't separate civil rights in that way.

 

 



 

Really not sure I see any point of Consol over PC's since Kinect, Wii and other alternative ways to play have been abandoned. 

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sc94597 on 02 May 2013
Lafiel said:
sc94597 said:
Lafiel said:
In the past marriages between different ethnicities or different social backgrounds or different religions/confessions or ofcourse same sex mariages were banned, because other people had the power to do so.

That's why government has to get involved, as the consent of the elected representatives of all people living in a country is a powerful statement.

Only because government was involved in marriage. If there is no state to enforce such policies then there would be total liberty in this area. 

no, if religion for example says "it's wrong", then there will be people who enforce it, with or without government involvement

in the past (even nowadays) families/tribes often enforced it themselves

to have the liberty to marry whom you want to marry (consenting adults ofcourse) government has to be involved and say it's ok to do so

It makes very little sense to me since society is a voluntary entity. Such religious groups can't do anything about two persons going to a lawyer and writing up a marriage contract, then having a ceremony of their choice in a "pro-gay" or "pro-interacial" or "pro-whatever church." By having government involved these people (these religious fanatics) have a means to forcefully prevent such a proceeding to occur. 



aikohualda on 02 May 2013
sc94597 said:
Lafiel said:
In the past marriages between different ethnicities or different social backgrounds or different religions/confessions or ofcourse same sex mariages were banned, because other people had the power to do so.

That's why government has to get involved, as the consent of the elected representatives of all people living in a country is a powerful statement.

Only because government was involved in marriage. If there is no state to enforce such policies then there would be total liberty in this area. 

if the government won't be involved do you think church would let gay people get married???????????????????????????????????????????????

no



 

sc94597 on 02 May 2013
aikohualda said:
sc94597 said:
Lafiel said:
In the past marriages between different ethnicities or different social backgrounds or different religions/confessions or ofcourse same sex mariages were banned, because other people had the power to do so.

That's why government has to get involved, as the consent of the elected representatives of all people living in a country is a powerful statement.

Only because government was involved in marriage. If there is no state to enforce such policies then there would be total liberty in this area. 

if the government won't be involved do you think church would let gay people get married???????????????????????????????????????????????

no

There are plenty of churches that marry gay people in the states where it's legal. Furthermore, if government makes it legal instead of liberalizing marriage the same problem still exists. Government can't force these churches to marry gay people, or at least not in the United States ( a secular federation) can it. Finally, a church is not required to get married. 



Zappykins on 02 May 2013
killerzX said:
its not marriage equality. its homosexual couples marriage.

anyway, i just wish the state would get out of marriage. its not the governments job.

Actually, that is exactly what it is - removing the gender barrier that prevents some couples from enjoying full civil rights that come from marriage because of their gender.   A Church in Rhode Island marries a couple - before, only man/woman couples would have civil rights, now gender discrimination has been removed.

As far as the government getting out of it – that is a separate argument. You would need to change over 15,000 Federal laws and statues – including the 5th amendment, and another whole bunch (many thousands) of state ones.  It's possible, but a whole bunch of work that would take years and be expensive.

Just like the states remove laws restricting mixed race marriages – something forbidden in many religions and the Bible, they removed gender discrimination to Rhode Island civil marriage code.  



 

Really not sure I see any point of Consol over PC's since Kinect, Wii and other alternative ways to play have been abandoned. 

Top 50 'most fun' game list coming soon!

 

Tell me a funny joke!
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aikohualda on 02 May 2013
sc94597 said:
aikohualda said:
sc94597 said:
Lafiel said:
In the past marriages between different ethnicities or different social backgrounds or different religions/confessions or ofcourse same sex mariages were banned, because other people had the power to do so.

That's why government has to get involved, as the consent of the elected representatives of all people living in a country is a powerful statement.

Only because government was involved in marriage. If there is no state to enforce such policies then there would be total liberty in this area. 

if the government won't be involved do you think church would let gay people get married???????????????????????????????????????????????

no

There are plenty of churches that marry gay people in the states where it's legal. Furthermore, if government makes it legal instead of liberalizing marriage the same problem still exists. Government can't force these churches to marry gay people, or at least not in the United States ( a secular federation) can it. Finally, a church is not required to get married. 

goverment cant force the churches..... but they can implement a law. not all people get married in the churches BTW..... yes a church is not required to get married.... the government does it too... so if the government would not be involve what would happen? people are now only gonna get married by the churches... and that would also trample LAWS....

tax law, property law, health law, insurance law, etc etc..........

so yes the government needs to be involve...



 

sc94597 on 02 May 2013
Zappykins said:
killerzX said:
its not marriage equality. its homosexual couples marriage.

anyway, i just wish the state would get out of marriage. its not the governments job.

 

As far as the government getting out of it – that is a separate argument. You would need to change over 15,000 Federal laws and statues – including the 5th amendment, and another whole bunch (many thousands) of state ones.  It's possible, but a whole bunch of work that would take years and be expensive.

 

Interesting. What does the fifth amendment have to do with this? Also, it wouldn't be a change of those laws, it would be a total repealment of them. No government in marriage unless there is an enforcement of a contract between two individuals. To think that there are 15,000 Federal laws on something as personal as marriage is sickening to me, especially since the Federal government should be restricted to interstatual law and not have any involvement with the individual lives of particular persons unless it involves an interstatual or international situation. 



sc94597 on 02 May 2013
aikohualda said:
sc94597 said:
aikohualda said:
sc94597 said:
Lafiel said:
In the past marriages between different ethnicities or different social backgrounds or different religions/confessions or ofcourse same sex mariages were banned, because other people had the power to do so.

That's why government has to get involved, as the consent of the elected representatives of all people living in a country is a powerful statement.

Only because government was involved in marriage. If there is no state to enforce such policies then there would be total liberty in this area. 

if the government won't be involved do you think church would let gay people get married???????????????????????????????????????????????

no

There are plenty of churches that marry gay people in the states where it's legal. Furthermore, if government makes it legal instead of liberalizing marriage the same problem still exists. Government can't force these churches to marry gay people, or at least not in the United States ( a secular federation) can it. Finally, a church is not required to get married. 

goverment cant force the churches..... but they can implement a law. not all people get married in the churches BTW..... yes a church is not required to get married.... the government does it too... so if the government would not be involve what would happen? people are now only gonna get married by the churches... and that would also trample LAWS....

tax law, property law, health law, insurance law, etc etc..........

so yes the government needs to be involve...

@Bolded There is such a thing as an individual contract. 

@Italicized DING DING DING! That's the reason why government is involved in marriage in the first place. We have a winner. Although I wouldn't call this a good thing, government controlling your marriage liberties just so they can steal more easily from you lol. 



Zappykins on 02 May 2013
aikohualda said:

if the government won't be involved do you think church would let gay people get married???????????????????????????????????????????????

no

Actually, it's the other way around. 

Many Church is the USA perform same sex mariages - but without the equal marriage rights the couples do not enjoy the legal benifits of civil marriage - it's just a fancy party.

So a Church in Utah can perform a marriage service for two women, but unless the State of Utah recognizes the marriage, then no civil state or federal rights for the couples.

NO CHURCH in the USA can be forced to perform a marriage.



 

Really not sure I see any point of Consol over PC's since Kinect, Wii and other alternative ways to play have been abandoned. 

Top 50 'most fun' game list coming soon!

 

Tell me a funny joke!
sc94597 on 02 May 2013

Let me just remind you guys about DOMA.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defense_of_Marriage_Act

But apparently MORE government is good for marriage rights, lol.